Having gone from single-sided to push/pull to finally a wishbone tiller I am in the "two thumbs up" camp. In the design phase it is hard to over emphasize the need for a mock-up. You'll want to know the distance from the pivot point of your rudder to the mizzen mast and the diameter of the mast. Conventional wisdom says the rudder "stalls" at about 35 degrees, it can take a lot of swing to get the rudder to "hard over" that far and the farther your mizzen is from the pivot point the bigger section of arc you'll need to accommodate. My tiller is by far the thing people most ask about at the Port Townsend WBF each year.
Steve - Double Amen to the need for mock-ups, since you only get one shot at forming the wishbone…and it isn’t the sort of thing you want a “do-over” on.
Sincere thanks for the nice words, but photos make everything look better, so while I’ll take “gorgeous,” it’s a pretty generous word for some steam-bending, saber-sawing and sanding. (Too many “S’s.)
Just like a “very good movie” beautiful!....I’ll watch the “Wizard” Marty create his works of art....but I will continue to sail my simple sloop!!! Thanks Marty
David - Thank you for the kind words. (Yes, Nord Vinden was a great little boat, but the gunter yawl I’m building now, Mouse, will be a lot more comfortable when camp-cruising.)
Mike - I retired from restoring other peoples’ boats several years ago, but I’ve been working with Josh on Small Craft Advisor for about ten years and hope to keep at…well, as long as humanly possible. Thanks for your kind words!
First, looking at the inside of the boat itself - what a pretty thing! Your craftsmanship is awesome. Then - that tiller! I'd never even heard of such a thing before! I read every word - so fascinating - the shape, the process, the design - all of it. thank you for sharing this!
Brings back memories, 64 years ago (+/-) my first build was a canoe with steam bent ribs. A low tech version of your set up; a piece of rain gutter downspout angled over an open fire did the job. Thanks for toggling the memory, I cherish the memory of that cranky tippy craft and all that have followed.
This looks like an "I need something to pass the long winter" project.
Nice job, tho.
If the mast was attached to the Rudder would both still function properly?
I wanted to use my mast raising strut as a mizzen mast (stacking function) so I could deploy a shade over the boom and sail with mizzen and jib while avoiding the sun's rays.
Jon - No, the mizzen mast cannot be attached to the rudder, and it wouldn’t be nearly as strong—at least on this boat—as running the mast down through the aft deck to a sturdy socket. And no, I’ve got enough going on that I’m hardly looking for a way to leisurely “pass the long winter” since this project HAS to be, and will be, finished by March 1…to make room for the next one. The fan centerboard on my old 1880’s-design NORD VINDEN canoe yawl was made up of pivoting brass fan blades that could be deployed and nested back into the shallow 3”-deep CB trunk. When dropped, they formed a triangular CB that wasn’t too deep. I always worried about fragility and made a point of never running aground with the seemingly-delicate fan CB, but the thing never caused problems and allowed me to sleep aboard in the ridiculously small cockpit without having to nest on one side of a taller CB trunk. So, yes, what can go wrong often does, and maybe I just lucked out…but I didn’t design fan CB’s and would never recommend them to others, but I did come to appreciate their space-saving feature aboard a little 13’ double-ender. In terms of the current MOUSE project, a one-off “blank slate” design with no instructions or detailed plans, I’ve loved that I encounter new (and mostly small) design challenges every single day…making this a a super-engaging project. While I always try to find the simplest, strongest and most reliable solutions to each design opportunity, there are times when the Occams Razor approach (look it up) can result in elegance and beauty—along with functionality, strength and simplicity. Hence, the wishbone tiller, which went together fast enough, is strong and looks okay, and which I prefer over a push-pull tiller, offset mizzen mast or other solutions. Thanks for your comments!
I understand that oak and epoxy aren’t always the best of friends, did you treat the oak in anyway to prepare it, other than bathing it and boiling it?
Chris - I’ve heard that for a long time but have yet to experience a problem epoxying oak to itself, or to other wood species. But yes, in this case, I might have removed some of the oak’s natural oils during the boiling process. (When the laminated layers were fully dried after being clamped in place following the boiling, they did seem a bit less oily than what we generally experience with un-cooked oak…so maybe that helped.) Finally, just fyi, I’ve always used System Three General Purpose Epoxy, and West System 105 Epoxy with either 205 (Fast) or 206 (Slow) Hardener. I’m not saying that other epoxy resins are inferior, but having had disasters with a just a few of them in past years, I’ve settled on System Three and West System…old reliables.
I’ve used a variety of epoxies over the years and can’t say I’ve had problems with any (not counting the time new pumps were dispensing the wrong ratios and caused a lot of work to remove a non-hardening coating! I always weigh a batch now to check the pumps out.)
As we rely so heavily on epoxy doing its job these days your advice on the ‘old reliables’ is much appreciated.
Chris - I’ve stopped using pumps—just not trustworthy since any small amount of clogging in one can throw the whole batch off. Much simpler to use the metered mixing cups to get an accurate-enough 2:1 ratios…or whatever mixing ratio.
Having gone from single-sided to push/pull to finally a wishbone tiller I am in the "two thumbs up" camp. In the design phase it is hard to over emphasize the need for a mock-up. You'll want to know the distance from the pivot point of your rudder to the mizzen mast and the diameter of the mast. Conventional wisdom says the rudder "stalls" at about 35 degrees, it can take a lot of swing to get the rudder to "hard over" that far and the farther your mizzen is from the pivot point the bigger section of arc you'll need to accommodate. My tiller is by far the thing people most ask about at the Port Townsend WBF each year.
Steve - Double Amen to the need for mock-ups, since you only get one shot at forming the wishbone…and it isn’t the sort of thing you want a “do-over” on.
As usual---I am amazed, humbled, full of admiration! Gorgeous, Marty. Again.... as usual!
Sincere thanks for the nice words, but photos make everything look better, so while I’ll take “gorgeous,” it’s a pretty generous word for some steam-bending, saber-sawing and sanding. (Too many “S’s.)
Just like a “very good movie” beautiful!....I’ll watch the “Wizard” Marty create his works of art....but I will continue to sail my simple sloop!!! Thanks Marty
Dan - Thanks, but building sure is a slow-motion movie! (Love the work, but can’t wait to get Mouse in the water.)
What an incredibly beautiful piece of work!! And, both boats....sigh...what more can be said??!!!
David - Thank you for the kind words. (Yes, Nord Vinden was a great little boat, but the gunter yawl I’m building now, Mouse, will be a lot more comfortable when camp-cruising.)
Thanks for the steel pipe trick for steaming wood, Marty. I'm always learning something new here.
Absolutely beautiful. The kind of work I love. But I'd be nervous in heavy weather in anything larger than a sailing canoe.
P.S. I love Marty's posts. Hope he never decides to retire. :-)
Mike - I retired from restoring other peoples’ boats several years ago, but I’ve been working with Josh on Small Craft Advisor for about ten years and hope to keep at…well, as long as humanly possible. Thanks for your kind words!
First, looking at the inside of the boat itself - what a pretty thing! Your craftsmanship is awesome. Then - that tiller! I'd never even heard of such a thing before! I read every word - so fascinating - the shape, the process, the design - all of it. thank you for sharing this!
You are so welcome, Angela—glad you enjoyed hearing about something new.
Brings back memories, 64 years ago (+/-) my first build was a canoe with steam bent ribs. A low tech version of your set up; a piece of rain gutter downspout angled over an open fire did the job. Thanks for toggling the memory, I cherish the memory of that cranky tippy craft and all that have followed.
Move the mizzen mast aft of the rudder.
Simple is usually better.
This looks like an "I need something to pass the long winter" project.
Nice job, tho.
If the mast was attached to the Rudder would both still function properly?
I wanted to use my mast raising strut as a mizzen mast (stacking function) so I could deploy a shade over the boom and sail with mizzen and jib while avoiding the sun's rays.
Pretty boat!
A fan shaped c board?
More opportunities for failure.
Occams razor.
What can go wrong probably will.
Jon - No, the mizzen mast cannot be attached to the rudder, and it wouldn’t be nearly as strong—at least on this boat—as running the mast down through the aft deck to a sturdy socket. And no, I’ve got enough going on that I’m hardly looking for a way to leisurely “pass the long winter” since this project HAS to be, and will be, finished by March 1…to make room for the next one. The fan centerboard on my old 1880’s-design NORD VINDEN canoe yawl was made up of pivoting brass fan blades that could be deployed and nested back into the shallow 3”-deep CB trunk. When dropped, they formed a triangular CB that wasn’t too deep. I always worried about fragility and made a point of never running aground with the seemingly-delicate fan CB, but the thing never caused problems and allowed me to sleep aboard in the ridiculously small cockpit without having to nest on one side of a taller CB trunk. So, yes, what can go wrong often does, and maybe I just lucked out…but I didn’t design fan CB’s and would never recommend them to others, but I did come to appreciate their space-saving feature aboard a little 13’ double-ender. In terms of the current MOUSE project, a one-off “blank slate” design with no instructions or detailed plans, I’ve loved that I encounter new (and mostly small) design challenges every single day…making this a a super-engaging project. While I always try to find the simplest, strongest and most reliable solutions to each design opportunity, there are times when the Occams Razor approach (look it up) can result in elegance and beauty—along with functionality, strength and simplicity. Hence, the wishbone tiller, which went together fast enough, is strong and looks okay, and which I prefer over a push-pull tiller, offset mizzen mast or other solutions. Thanks for your comments!
I understand that oak and epoxy aren’t always the best of friends, did you treat the oak in anyway to prepare it, other than bathing it and boiling it?
Chris - I’ve heard that for a long time but have yet to experience a problem epoxying oak to itself, or to other wood species. But yes, in this case, I might have removed some of the oak’s natural oils during the boiling process. (When the laminated layers were fully dried after being clamped in place following the boiling, they did seem a bit less oily than what we generally experience with un-cooked oak…so maybe that helped.) Finally, just fyi, I’ve always used System Three General Purpose Epoxy, and West System 105 Epoxy with either 205 (Fast) or 206 (Slow) Hardener. I’m not saying that other epoxy resins are inferior, but having had disasters with a just a few of them in past years, I’ve settled on System Three and West System…old reliables.
Thanks Marty.
I’ve used a variety of epoxies over the years and can’t say I’ve had problems with any (not counting the time new pumps were dispensing the wrong ratios and caused a lot of work to remove a non-hardening coating! I always weigh a batch now to check the pumps out.)
As we rely so heavily on epoxy doing its job these days your advice on the ‘old reliables’ is much appreciated.
Chris - I’ve stopped using pumps—just not trustworthy since any small amount of clogging in one can throw the whole batch off. Much simpler to use the metered mixing cups to get an accurate-enough 2:1 ratios…or whatever mixing ratio.