I used an electric drive (minnkota 24 volt system )for several years. It was fine for getting in/out of the slip and marina. Due to limited range and long recharging times
I returned to a gasoline outboard.
I now have and for many years have used a tohatsu 6 hp sail pro and carry 6 gallons of gas which gives me virtually unlimited range and much more power to push through chop and waves when necessary.
Full power on electric would push my starwind 19 at 4.3 knots .
The tohatsu will push the boat at hull speed (5.4 knots) with the throttle set at just above the start setting just sipping fuel.
If you have ever been stuck on the water at night with no wind and drained batteries I think you would agree, gas is just better.
Pull in to any marina and refill your gas tank in minutes not your batteries in hours. After using both systems, I'll stick with gasoline.
I installed a propulsion 3.0 on our refitted Kittiwake 23 to replace a vintage two stroke mariner that rattled tour teeth and ruined cockpit conversation. It was not an inexpensive choice and comparisons with internal combustion engines will not sway pragmatists, but we love the ease with which we can augment our sailing and the lack of noise is magical.
We limit our usage and sail on and off our mooring and ably use the pod drive to navigate a contrary tide or lack of wind. It has improved our sailing skills and quality of our days aboard.
I converted a 3.5 Tohatsu direct drive to use a 36V, 1000 W scooter motor about 4 years ago. I had to install a larger prop to get enough load to fully utilize the 3000 RPM motor. For controls i have a cheap PWM controller from amazon that has worked fine. At first is used an old tackle box with the controller and two M18 drill batteries in series. That worked fine for short movements of my 3000 lb full keel Bristol. I could go about a mile in flat calm. Now I have a 20 AH LiFePO 36 volt battery. I came in about 2 miles against the Piscataqua River outgoing tide and did not go below 50%. No over heating or other issues, but it is louder than the motors that are located below water. None of those will fit in my motor well and I am skeptical of anything with electrical and electronic components under salt water.
Have an Epropulsion 1.0 Spirit+ on my 19ft Mariner. Truly 3hp equivalent - gives 5.5kts full throttle, hull speed is 5.7kts which can be achieved with 5-6hp gas outboards. Sold my 5hp Honda due to starting anxiety. Spirit has 12+ nm range at 300 watts (3.5 kts) and at 400 watts (4.2 kts). Figures are averaged GPS 1nm run in both directions with 10kt wind.
Range is much more than an integral tank on gas outboard, much less than a 3 gal external gas tank. But I have plenty for daysailing. Cruising for several days anchoring out is probably marginal - would want a second battery if weather went wrong and food/water is running out.
Quiet is wonderful, find myself motoring a lot more than with the gas outboard, just for the pleasure of it. Also like not having 3 gal tank in footwell of cockpit. And motor splits into 2 parts - battery and motor - each of which weights about 20lbs. So lighter and less strain on outboard bracket and my back and shoulders. And of course, no pulling on a starter rope. And stores in the car without worrying which side up. No test tank needed, can turn on in any position. Finally, reverse is twisting the throttle in the other direction.
Fred, you bring up a great point...the small integral gas tanks that require filling out on the water if you motor any distance, or are worried about "range" before your run out of gas -- just when you need the motor! Sounds like "same difference" with an electric outboard, except I can actually tell how much battery I have left before it becomes a major issue. With my little Evinrude, I have to carry a stick to use for a fuel gauge...
To me, small gas outboards with integral tanks make zero sense compared to an electric. The only benefit they have is lower price.
It wasn't an easy decision for me to switch to electric. I had range anxiety, with the average distance between marinas in Western Albemarle Sound being about 15nm, and then having to wait 6+ hrs for the battery to recharge. But my starting anxiety was even worse. I had lost friends who would sail with me because I couldn't get them home on a reasonable schedule because the motor wouldn't start, and we were drifting in the calms. I became good at sculling Sweet P 100-200 yards from where we took sails down to the dock. I was ready to buy a new Tohatsu gas outboard to replace the cantankerous Honda.
But then I realized the EPropulsion Spirit was only $700 more, with a promise of no more starting anxiety, but considerably less range than a 3 gal gas tank. I took the risk with the Spirit, made some trial runs to get real-world estimates of range. The 12+ mile range does drive some decisions - knowing I will have to sail at least some of the way on a 15-20 mile day. And will probably want to carry a 2nd battery when I cruise more remote areas ($1.1K!) where recharging overnight isn't going to happen.
Since the switch, persistent shoulder weakness (PMR) has made me very glad I switched to push button starting.
Like I said earlier, silently motoring up a small creek at dawn while the fog patches are lifting is incredible bliss. The herons and geese and turtles barely know I am there.
You make another excellent point...purchase prices for new motors -- gas vs. electric -- are not THAT much more...($4k for a new 20hp Tohatsu; a grand for the littlest Honda). And LFP batteries, good for 10 years, are a "one time" investment...I just paid over $4/gal for 91 octane for my van...the electricity to recharge my lawnmower (which always starts right up) once a week is MUCH cheaper than buying gas.
Like all the ranting around electric cars (and trucks, and vans), range anxiety for electric outboards is just another canard...And I prefer the (relative) quiet when using electric equipment -- vs. gas (but I'm keeping my Husqvarna chainsaw).
I'll be honest - I choked at the idea of spending $2500 for a motor for Sweet P. The boat itself is probably only worth $3K (at least $40K to replace with new), and the trailer another $1K (although $4K to replace with new). In small fiberglass sailboats these days, everything is topsy turvy.
Faced with a mandatory withdrawal from an IRA last year, I took the proceeds to buy the Spirit, a quality boom cover, a tiller extension, a Loos gauge, and some other goodies to make sailing Sweet P more pleasurable.
When we bought our current "retirement" home in 2021 (2.5% mortgage so we are never moving), I went with Ego power tools for yard maintenance - starting with the chain saw (Lowe's, the only big box near us, carries them and they had good reviews). Gas yard tools just require too much maintenance themselves. The 18" chain saw does all the sawing I can handle on a single charge. So the only gas items I have are gifts (pressure washer) or came with the house (2001 Sears lawn tractor). Chain saw, pole saw, hedge trimmers, weed eater, leaf blower are all Ego battery tools. Yes, those tools are necessary when you live at the edge of the swamps in Eastern NC on land that had been overgrown for 20 years - that's how we could afford a place on the water. The good experience with the battery tools encouraged me to take a chance with the Spirit outboard.
Agreed on the Ego tools! When (if) my chainsaw croaks, I will replace it with an electric, considering how much I actually use it for maintenance around our little homestead. I lived for a few years in San Jose, and the landscape crews were out every day with their gas-powered mowers, blowers, and trimmers (thanks to the constant watering they needed to survive). Ego and Stihl saw the restrictions that were coming down the pike, and became first-movers on quality, commercial-grade products. We all benefit!
I just finished a Jimmy Skiff and got a Torqeedo Travel with the 1.5 kWh "XP" battery. On a lake, the range is amazing. 260W gives me 3.6 kt for 6 hours (22nm), or 450W gives me 4.1 kt for >3 hours (12nm). I had it out on the Columbia river this morning and found myself using 750W to maintain 3.3 kt upstream, so only about 6-7 nm range. Fine for me as I mostly want to row or sail. If I knew I had to go a long way upstream on the Columbia, I'd probably use a gas outboard..
My little Nordica 16, Tuffy, came with a 80 lb. (I think) thrust Minn Kota -- the kind designed to mount on the cavitation plate of a Big outboard -- bolted to the side of the keel. I worried that it would create a lot of drag, but I don't notice it when sailing. I have a slip at the local lake and use the motor for getting in and out of the marina, and getting home when the wind dies. During a messabout in May a Dovekie tried "racing" me across the lake in light airs, but gave up. Later her skipper complimented Tuffy on how well she ghosted along. I told him she ghosted along real good with the electric motor. :) With the motor barely turning over, so quiet I barely knew it was running, we got across the lake fast enough. I'm rarely in a hurry when I'm out sailing. :) There's no electricity on the dock but a 30 watt solar panel keeps the batteries up.
I have a sailboat so that I can go sailing. We have an electric outboard for getting in and out of a tight marina, heading upwind from the boat ramp, etc. For my use, the light, compact electric is just better than carting around a smelly, noisy, heavy outboard that would also require me store a quantity of flammable liquid as well.
If a 6hp Tohatsu is just sipping gas, then it isn't putting out 6hp. If it will get you to 5.4 knots at that level, then 500 to 1000 watts will also get you there. Our sailboat has a 10kWh battery bank and a 6kW electric Navy 6. About a 40nm range at low throttle (but gets close to hull speed at that)
Right...It doesn't take a lot of power -- gas or electric -- to get a slippery sailboat hull (or two) moving. I've towed a bigger, heavier boat, against a current, using an Evinrude 1.5 Mate outboard (late 1960s vintage) on my Potter. And I don't think that I was at full throttle...but that little gas tank becomes the issue if I'm running the motor more than just getting out of and back to the dock.
I have an ePropulsion 1.0 Evo for my Montgomery 19. It's great for day-sailing (and the silence is golden) but I had to go back to gas for what I do (week long cruising - no harbors). The regen is pretty useless on a boat my size as the drag is tremendous and it takes forever to regen (you have to maintain at least 4 knots and I'd guess the drag cuts one off). I've got a Honda 5 with an external tank and it's plenty of power even at near-idle. I've also used a Mercury 3.3 2-stroke which is great for weight and maintenance and pushes the boat fine, but it's short-shaft and the prop would clear the water if I go forward.
Tricky question. I've used an electric trolling motor on my P14 for local sailing, but used a Honda 2.2 for longer, multi-day voyages. My SF Pelican has oars but, again, for longer or multi-day sails an electric won't have the range of an outboard - but I'd love it if they did.
I have been cruising Puget Sound in electric boats for 26 years now and I am on my fourth cruising boat. The current one is a 22' C-Dory cruiser powered by two 3.0 kW ePropulsion motors. Nothing beats electric for quiet and slow cruising. My wife and I can actually have a conversation while underway. My current range is about 50 miles at 5 mph, and almost twice that if I slow down to 4 mph.
My batteries are four 48V 100AH Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries (Bestgo) from Electric Car Parts Co. They fit exactly in the same space next to the transom where the C-Dory usually had its fuel tanks. No extra space needed for the batteries! If anyone is interested in getting batteries for your boat please make sure their waterproof rating is at least IP66. Most Li batteries are only rated at IP65 which means "some ingress" of water is allowed when under a spray.
Biggest hassle from my point of view is that the current generation of gas outboards are heavy. You need to be about 30 lbs or so to easily be able to pull them off a bracket and stow them while sailing. The two strokes could do this with reasonable power. Now you have to go to electric. I've used the Torquedo 1003, now moved to the biggest minnkota 36volt motor. My boat lives on a mooring so batteries have to be able to be loaded into a dinghy. I use 3 12 li in series.
I used an electric drive (minnkota 24 volt system )for several years. It was fine for getting in/out of the slip and marina. Due to limited range and long recharging times
I returned to a gasoline outboard.
I now have and for many years have used a tohatsu 6 hp sail pro and carry 6 gallons of gas which gives me virtually unlimited range and much more power to push through chop and waves when necessary.
Full power on electric would push my starwind 19 at 4.3 knots .
The tohatsu will push the boat at hull speed (5.4 knots) with the throttle set at just above the start setting just sipping fuel.
If you have ever been stuck on the water at night with no wind and drained batteries I think you would agree, gas is just better.
Pull in to any marina and refill your gas tank in minutes not your batteries in hours. After using both systems, I'll stick with gasoline.
I will give electric power one big plus,
it's quiet !
I had a 6hp Tohatsu for years. Great motor. On a 25’ sailboat. The motor outlasted the boat.
I couldn’t agree more.
I like my EP Carry. Using a 170 W solar panel for power it can easily cover 30 miles on a sunny day, full solar range in summer is probably 50 miles.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/ricks_boats/53488166690/in/dateposted-public/lightbox/
I installed a propulsion 3.0 on our refitted Kittiwake 23 to replace a vintage two stroke mariner that rattled tour teeth and ruined cockpit conversation. It was not an inexpensive choice and comparisons with internal combustion engines will not sway pragmatists, but we love the ease with which we can augment our sailing and the lack of noise is magical.
We limit our usage and sail on and off our mooring and ably use the pod drive to navigate a contrary tide or lack of wind. It has improved our sailing skills and quality of our days aboard.
Picaro on the Vineyard Sound
I converted a 3.5 Tohatsu direct drive to use a 36V, 1000 W scooter motor about 4 years ago. I had to install a larger prop to get enough load to fully utilize the 3000 RPM motor. For controls i have a cheap PWM controller from amazon that has worked fine. At first is used an old tackle box with the controller and two M18 drill batteries in series. That worked fine for short movements of my 3000 lb full keel Bristol. I could go about a mile in flat calm. Now I have a 20 AH LiFePO 36 volt battery. I came in about 2 miles against the Piscataqua River outgoing tide and did not go below 50%. No over heating or other issues, but it is louder than the motors that are located below water. None of those will fit in my motor well and I am skeptical of anything with electrical and electronic components under salt water.
Have an Epropulsion 1.0 Spirit+ on my 19ft Mariner. Truly 3hp equivalent - gives 5.5kts full throttle, hull speed is 5.7kts which can be achieved with 5-6hp gas outboards. Sold my 5hp Honda due to starting anxiety. Spirit has 12+ nm range at 300 watts (3.5 kts) and at 400 watts (4.2 kts). Figures are averaged GPS 1nm run in both directions with 10kt wind.
Range is much more than an integral tank on gas outboard, much less than a 3 gal external gas tank. But I have plenty for daysailing. Cruising for several days anchoring out is probably marginal - would want a second battery if weather went wrong and food/water is running out.
Quiet is wonderful, find myself motoring a lot more than with the gas outboard, just for the pleasure of it. Also like not having 3 gal tank in footwell of cockpit. And motor splits into 2 parts - battery and motor - each of which weights about 20lbs. So lighter and less strain on outboard bracket and my back and shoulders. And of course, no pulling on a starter rope. And stores in the car without worrying which side up. No test tank needed, can turn on in any position. Finally, reverse is twisting the throttle in the other direction.
Fred, you bring up a great point...the small integral gas tanks that require filling out on the water if you motor any distance, or are worried about "range" before your run out of gas -- just when you need the motor! Sounds like "same difference" with an electric outboard, except I can actually tell how much battery I have left before it becomes a major issue. With my little Evinrude, I have to carry a stick to use for a fuel gauge...
To me, small gas outboards with integral tanks make zero sense compared to an electric. The only benefit they have is lower price.
It wasn't an easy decision for me to switch to electric. I had range anxiety, with the average distance between marinas in Western Albemarle Sound being about 15nm, and then having to wait 6+ hrs for the battery to recharge. But my starting anxiety was even worse. I had lost friends who would sail with me because I couldn't get them home on a reasonable schedule because the motor wouldn't start, and we were drifting in the calms. I became good at sculling Sweet P 100-200 yards from where we took sails down to the dock. I was ready to buy a new Tohatsu gas outboard to replace the cantankerous Honda.
But then I realized the EPropulsion Spirit was only $700 more, with a promise of no more starting anxiety, but considerably less range than a 3 gal gas tank. I took the risk with the Spirit, made some trial runs to get real-world estimates of range. The 12+ mile range does drive some decisions - knowing I will have to sail at least some of the way on a 15-20 mile day. And will probably want to carry a 2nd battery when I cruise more remote areas ($1.1K!) where recharging overnight isn't going to happen.
Since the switch, persistent shoulder weakness (PMR) has made me very glad I switched to push button starting.
Like I said earlier, silently motoring up a small creek at dawn while the fog patches are lifting is incredible bliss. The herons and geese and turtles barely know I am there.
You make another excellent point...purchase prices for new motors -- gas vs. electric -- are not THAT much more...($4k for a new 20hp Tohatsu; a grand for the littlest Honda). And LFP batteries, good for 10 years, are a "one time" investment...I just paid over $4/gal for 91 octane for my van...the electricity to recharge my lawnmower (which always starts right up) once a week is MUCH cheaper than buying gas.
Like all the ranting around electric cars (and trucks, and vans), range anxiety for electric outboards is just another canard...And I prefer the (relative) quiet when using electric equipment -- vs. gas (but I'm keeping my Husqvarna chainsaw).
I'll be honest - I choked at the idea of spending $2500 for a motor for Sweet P. The boat itself is probably only worth $3K (at least $40K to replace with new), and the trailer another $1K (although $4K to replace with new). In small fiberglass sailboats these days, everything is topsy turvy.
Faced with a mandatory withdrawal from an IRA last year, I took the proceeds to buy the Spirit, a quality boom cover, a tiller extension, a Loos gauge, and some other goodies to make sailing Sweet P more pleasurable.
When we bought our current "retirement" home in 2021 (2.5% mortgage so we are never moving), I went with Ego power tools for yard maintenance - starting with the chain saw (Lowe's, the only big box near us, carries them and they had good reviews). Gas yard tools just require too much maintenance themselves. The 18" chain saw does all the sawing I can handle on a single charge. So the only gas items I have are gifts (pressure washer) or came with the house (2001 Sears lawn tractor). Chain saw, pole saw, hedge trimmers, weed eater, leaf blower are all Ego battery tools. Yes, those tools are necessary when you live at the edge of the swamps in Eastern NC on land that had been overgrown for 20 years - that's how we could afford a place on the water. The good experience with the battery tools encouraged me to take a chance with the Spirit outboard.
Agreed on the Ego tools! When (if) my chainsaw croaks, I will replace it with an electric, considering how much I actually use it for maintenance around our little homestead. I lived for a few years in San Jose, and the landscape crews were out every day with their gas-powered mowers, blowers, and trimmers (thanks to the constant watering they needed to survive). Ego and Stihl saw the restrictions that were coming down the pike, and became first-movers on quality, commercial-grade products. We all benefit!
I just finished a Jimmy Skiff and got a Torqeedo Travel with the 1.5 kWh "XP" battery. On a lake, the range is amazing. 260W gives me 3.6 kt for 6 hours (22nm), or 450W gives me 4.1 kt for >3 hours (12nm). I had it out on the Columbia river this morning and found myself using 750W to maintain 3.3 kt upstream, so only about 6-7 nm range. Fine for me as I mostly want to row or sail. If I knew I had to go a long way upstream on the Columbia, I'd probably use a gas outboard..
I also have a ComPac 16 that I can't row. I always use a 2 HP Yamaha for that...
My little Nordica 16, Tuffy, came with a 80 lb. (I think) thrust Minn Kota -- the kind designed to mount on the cavitation plate of a Big outboard -- bolted to the side of the keel. I worried that it would create a lot of drag, but I don't notice it when sailing. I have a slip at the local lake and use the motor for getting in and out of the marina, and getting home when the wind dies. During a messabout in May a Dovekie tried "racing" me across the lake in light airs, but gave up. Later her skipper complimented Tuffy on how well she ghosted along. I told him she ghosted along real good with the electric motor. :) With the motor barely turning over, so quiet I barely knew it was running, we got across the lake fast enough. I'm rarely in a hurry when I'm out sailing. :) There's no electricity on the dock but a 30 watt solar panel keeps the batteries up.
https://flic.kr/p/XBkXYq
I have a sailboat so that I can go sailing. We have an electric outboard for getting in and out of a tight marina, heading upwind from the boat ramp, etc. For my use, the light, compact electric is just better than carting around a smelly, noisy, heavy outboard that would also require me store a quantity of flammable liquid as well.
If a 6hp Tohatsu is just sipping gas, then it isn't putting out 6hp. If it will get you to 5.4 knots at that level, then 500 to 1000 watts will also get you there. Our sailboat has a 10kWh battery bank and a 6kW electric Navy 6. About a 40nm range at low throttle (but gets close to hull speed at that)
Right...It doesn't take a lot of power -- gas or electric -- to get a slippery sailboat hull (or two) moving. I've towed a bigger, heavier boat, against a current, using an Evinrude 1.5 Mate outboard (late 1960s vintage) on my Potter. And I don't think that I was at full throttle...but that little gas tank becomes the issue if I'm running the motor more than just getting out of and back to the dock.
I have an ePropulsion 1.0 Evo for my Montgomery 19. It's great for day-sailing (and the silence is golden) but I had to go back to gas for what I do (week long cruising - no harbors). The regen is pretty useless on a boat my size as the drag is tremendous and it takes forever to regen (you have to maintain at least 4 knots and I'd guess the drag cuts one off). I've got a Honda 5 with an external tank and it's plenty of power even at near-idle. I've also used a Mercury 3.3 2-stroke which is great for weight and maintenance and pushes the boat fine, but it's short-shaft and the prop would clear the water if I go forward.
Tricky question. I've used an electric trolling motor on my P14 for local sailing, but used a Honda 2.2 for longer, multi-day voyages. My SF Pelican has oars but, again, for longer or multi-day sails an electric won't have the range of an outboard - but I'd love it if they did.
I have been cruising Puget Sound in electric boats for 26 years now and I am on my fourth cruising boat. The current one is a 22' C-Dory cruiser powered by two 3.0 kW ePropulsion motors. Nothing beats electric for quiet and slow cruising. My wife and I can actually have a conversation while underway. My current range is about 50 miles at 5 mph, and almost twice that if I slow down to 4 mph.
Thanks for the update, Tom. I also really like that C-Dory! Could you give us some details on your batteries -- type, make and capacity?
My batteries are four 48V 100AH Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries (Bestgo) from Electric Car Parts Co. They fit exactly in the same space next to the transom where the C-Dory usually had its fuel tanks. No extra space needed for the batteries! If anyone is interested in getting batteries for your boat please make sure their waterproof rating is at least IP66. Most Li batteries are only rated at IP65 which means "some ingress" of water is allowed when under a spray.
Biggest hassle from my point of view is that the current generation of gas outboards are heavy. You need to be about 30 lbs or so to easily be able to pull them off a bracket and stow them while sailing. The two strokes could do this with reasonable power. Now you have to go to electric. I've used the Torquedo 1003, now moved to the biggest minnkota 36volt motor. My boat lives on a mooring so batteries have to be able to be loaded into a dinghy. I use 3 12 li in series.
I bought an ePropulsion Spirit 1.0 but haven’t commissioned the boat yet. Mostly still working on the sailing rig.
How dingy is the dinghy,
How leprous is its paint
It floats upon the water,
But a haughty yacht it ain't.
Don’t like electric motors. Poor range and expensive batteries. Where’s my green hydrogen conversion outboard?