Hi Peter. The answer is an emphatic Yes. However, this said it would be helpful to know the model or kayak type with dimensions you have or are considering. It is possible to sail just about anything that floats but choosing the right boat and right rig match is key. As we know all boats are a bundle of compromises. There are always trade offs. Having a boat with a wider beam does not necessarily mean paddling will be compromised to a point of dislike. What is key is that capability/performance/comfort/discomfort/expected use expectations all need to be in line. One of my deepest areas of interest in the small boat realm is the sailing/paddling kayak, sailing/paddling canoe genre. I am a believer in reality use and choosing the right boat for the type of sailing/paddling planned. For example I once sailed and paddled a sea kayak for 91 days through Tierra del Fuego, the Beagle Channel and twice around Cape Horn far out in the Southern Ocean. I am sure some here may scoff at this voyage but facts are facts, meaning I chose wisely and was able to sail and paddle with great efficiency because I chose the right boat and matched the sail rig to it. In addition my expectations were in line. The boat performed perfectly because I knew what to expect from choosing based on testing. If you haven't settled on a design yet all the better as perhaps the collective SCA brain trust here can help lead you to a performance paddle and sail type. Respectfully there are a number of other posts here suggesting certain design types but beware as the paddle sail equation has to be carefully thought through as your intended use may not line up with some of these. (FYI I just sent another email to you regarding finishing your SCAMP), fire off any specific kayak sailing questions in your email response if I can help. Always good to see your name Peter!
I sailed a Folbot Aleut with a BSD 32 ft. sail, leeboard, and , eventually, Folbot inflatable outriggers, and a non-standard push-pull tiller. Upwind: certainly. Downwind: surfing down a decent chop, lots of fun. Otherwise, fine. However, I never got past it taking too long to rig.
I had a large golf umbrella that was equipped not to blow out. A lot of the time I would just go out with that, and only run and broad reach.
I’m 98 now, and all that is in the past. Enjoy your sailing kayak.
Check out Michael Storers sailing canoe designs. Lots of good information on them that applies to kayaks: https://www.storerboatplans.com/
The typical kayak is intended for paddling, with a narrow beam. Unstable for sailing. A good sailing kayak (think Klepper folding kayaks) has a wider beam so paddling is compromised. There are designs that provide both sailing and paddling but neither is as good as a boat designed for one or the other.
The kayak in the photo has a leeboard and rudder, so it should work to windward at least somewhat. Kayaks and canoes not designed to sail often have trouble tacking due to their design for directional stability. What I've read is that a canoe or kayak with rocker makes a better sailer.
If you don't intend to paddle it much there are outriggers/amas for kayaks and canoes that give stability.
I've been thinking about the same thing. Trailering has become an unpleasant chore.
Absolutely. Check out all the photos for the Everglades Challenge on Watertribe’s FB and website. If you don’t go for aka/ama, a 1sqm sail will do wonders. I’ve used one for years. Naturally better off or down wind, but useful upwind if you keep paddling. My record is a consistent 15 knots of speed on a two-mile run in sporty winds in my 5.32m kayak. (AKA KiwiBird)
CLC Wood-duck 12 + M. Storer drop-in rig + custom drop-down rudder. Works well for cruising but won't break speed records. Good steady performance all points, in conditions suitable for such craft and skill set of crew. My vignette shows mine pulled in after a day on a big lake in September, 4 degrees Celsius air, 12 degrees Celsius water; avg. winds 8-10 Kn, gusts to 15. Ballast (crew) 100 Kg.
Unless the kayak can reduce leeway effectively I don’t see how this could sail upwind. Without something that works like a leeboard I don’t understand how this could work. Down wind is an entirely different matter though.
A lot of similar setups paddle upwind and sail back. Unless you packed a leeboard that’s what I’d do.
Having said that, look at the creative approaches to this issue by others. Nothing is truly new. I read an instructible by Tim Andersen sailing a Canadian canoe upwind using an old street sign attached to a line. It would dangle overboard to leeward on one tack, then he’d just toss it over the other side for the next tack. Seemed to work fine for him. I can’t imagine that it had the best fluid dynamics but it was free and as I say he made it work. Worth a try.
Edit: I just zoomed in on the image of the kayak. It seems to have leeboards already so a definitive yes, and why not.
That photo shows a BSD Batwing sail on an Easy Rider boat.
This kayak is missing, by far, the full potential of these rigs, as he doesn't have the BSD outriggers.
Add the amas, and you have a rig that will most definitely give a thrill ride, most definitely to windward, and up to 10kt, off the wind - A wet, exciting ride for sure......... DAMHIKT :~)
I have a Chesapeake Light Craft Chesapeake 17 Kayak that I picked up for practically free a couple of years ago. I need to redeck it, but I would be lying if I said I was not tempted to add their sailing kit to it. With sail options ranging from 40 to 70 square feet, I bet it would be a ripper across calmish waters.
Where i live the weather has become so unpredictable. it can go from no wind to 30 kts in minutes with no good forecasting. I don't always feel safe taking my 3000 lb full keel sailboat out. I also have a Bolger Teal with a 60 sf rig that gets very little use. A little more stable than a kayak, but less safe to capsize in. I would explore down wind type rigs that are easy to stow. going to windward might be more trouble than it is worth for the time that it can be used.
I built a CLC Mill Creek 16 with sailing rig for Lady Bird Lake - definitely a ‘lake in Texas’. My criteria were similar to yours. A blast going downwind or on a broad reach. Beam reach also good depending on the breeze. Beam and to windward, it started going sideways. Doesn’t point worth beans, at least in mine hands with a balanced lug. Stable enough if you pay attention. Only once accidental swamping when I took a friend with poor balance and no boat sense out in a stiff breeze. Being long and light, it’s a bear to come about. I haven’t mastered that. Easy enough to put the stern across. The rig is light and a gybe easy to control. Sails in almost no wind as it has minimal draft and weight. One of the early Electric Paddles drives it very nicely when the wind dies or is coming straight up the ‘lake’ created by a dam on the Colorado River. Paddles well also.
I owned a Hobie Adventure Island sailing kayak with amas and a 65sqft furling sail from 2006-2020. I loved it! Lots of room for gear in dry bags, you could sail, paddle, or peddle it and it was at least satisfactory sailing up wind (probably 45 degrees off the wind, but could improve if peddled and sailed at the same time) and exceptional on a reach (speeds up to 10kts). It did not tack well unless loaded with gear because it was light, but I learned to power through tacks with the peddle system. Even with the amas it peddled or paddled easily. Great for fishing as well because you could stand up on it. Boats that do many things are always a compromise, but for how I used it, the Adventure Island was wonderful. I only sold it (for more than I bought it) because I got a mooring in my harbor and put a 17 ft. cat boat on it. I then got a lighter, pure kayak for traveling.
In 1977 into 1983 I had a Folbot Super (2 person) boat. The manufacturer said it was NOT a kayak, although you could have fooled me. Anyway, I bought their sail rig for it and used it around Ketchikan and Prince of Wales Island, paddling and sailing both. Used it again while going to Portland Community College in Oregon, on the Columbia River including out of Hood River before the wind surfers had found it. Then I worked on the Bridger-Teton National Forest out of Pinedale and sailed it on the lakes there. The last time I did, one of the mountain winds came up unexpectedly and I capsized. To get the boat right side up again I pulled the sail down and somehow the whole rig got loose and went to the bottom of Fremont lake, never to be seen again. and entirely my fault. I agree with all the encouragement here. I would talk to the folks at CLC and ask if they can put you in contact with some other folks who use their sail rig on your kayak.
You might explore the Hobie Adventure Island Mirage drive options. They make a solo and a tandem version. Sails very well due to the fully battened main and that roller furls against the mast, the outboard amas that give it great stability and a centerboard that prevents sideways drift. The Mirage drive is very efficient and leaves the hands free to attend to other tasks. It is a sit-on-top so it can be wet in a sea and I find the rudder control a bit small for its function. It is not the lightest kayak out there but the sail arrangements and Mirage drive offset that a great deal.
I originally posited this question asking specifically about the CLC Mill Creek 13 with stock rig. That got omitted in the original post. I need a simple, “get it done”, light weight, reasonable afternoon, lakes in Texas, throw on the roof racks, paddle, and sail, kinda job. Anybody sailed a Mill Creek 13? Thanks
Hi Peter. The answer is an emphatic Yes. However, this said it would be helpful to know the model or kayak type with dimensions you have or are considering. It is possible to sail just about anything that floats but choosing the right boat and right rig match is key. As we know all boats are a bundle of compromises. There are always trade offs. Having a boat with a wider beam does not necessarily mean paddling will be compromised to a point of dislike. What is key is that capability/performance/comfort/discomfort/expected use expectations all need to be in line. One of my deepest areas of interest in the small boat realm is the sailing/paddling kayak, sailing/paddling canoe genre. I am a believer in reality use and choosing the right boat for the type of sailing/paddling planned. For example I once sailed and paddled a sea kayak for 91 days through Tierra del Fuego, the Beagle Channel and twice around Cape Horn far out in the Southern Ocean. I am sure some here may scoff at this voyage but facts are facts, meaning I chose wisely and was able to sail and paddle with great efficiency because I chose the right boat and matched the sail rig to it. In addition my expectations were in line. The boat performed perfectly because I knew what to expect from choosing based on testing. If you haven't settled on a design yet all the better as perhaps the collective SCA brain trust here can help lead you to a performance paddle and sail type. Respectfully there are a number of other posts here suggesting certain design types but beware as the paddle sail equation has to be carefully thought through as your intended use may not line up with some of these. (FYI I just sent another email to you regarding finishing your SCAMP), fire off any specific kayak sailing questions in your email response if I can help. Always good to see your name Peter!
No - I've tried it a number of times with different types of rigs and they never sail satisfyingly enough to justify the time or money.
I sailed a Folbot Aleut with a BSD 32 ft. sail, leeboard, and , eventually, Folbot inflatable outriggers, and a non-standard push-pull tiller. Upwind: certainly. Downwind: surfing down a decent chop, lots of fun. Otherwise, fine. However, I never got past it taking too long to rig.
I had a large golf umbrella that was equipped not to blow out. A lot of the time I would just go out with that, and only run and broad reach.
I’m 98 now, and all that is in the past. Enjoy your sailing kayak.
-- Joost Vas Dias
Peter-
Check out Michael Storers sailing canoe designs. Lots of good information on them that applies to kayaks: https://www.storerboatplans.com/
The typical kayak is intended for paddling, with a narrow beam. Unstable for sailing. A good sailing kayak (think Klepper folding kayaks) has a wider beam so paddling is compromised. There are designs that provide both sailing and paddling but neither is as good as a boat designed for one or the other.
The kayak in the photo has a leeboard and rudder, so it should work to windward at least somewhat. Kayaks and canoes not designed to sail often have trouble tacking due to their design for directional stability. What I've read is that a canoe or kayak with rocker makes a better sailer.
If you don't intend to paddle it much there are outriggers/amas for kayaks and canoes that give stability.
I've been thinking about the same thing. Trailering has become an unpleasant chore.
The Bufflehead canoe was good enough for Mead Gougeon etc so it must sail exceptionally well
Absolutely. Check out all the photos for the Everglades Challenge on Watertribe’s FB and website. If you don’t go for aka/ama, a 1sqm sail will do wonders. I’ve used one for years. Naturally better off or down wind, but useful upwind if you keep paddling. My record is a consistent 15 knots of speed on a two-mile run in sporty winds in my 5.32m kayak. (AKA KiwiBird)
CLC Wood-duck 12 + M. Storer drop-in rig + custom drop-down rudder. Works well for cruising but won't break speed records. Good steady performance all points, in conditions suitable for such craft and skill set of crew. My vignette shows mine pulled in after a day on a big lake in September, 4 degrees Celsius air, 12 degrees Celsius water; avg. winds 8-10 Kn, gusts to 15. Ballast (crew) 100 Kg.
Unless the kayak can reduce leeway effectively I don’t see how this could sail upwind. Without something that works like a leeboard I don’t understand how this could work. Down wind is an entirely different matter though.
A lot of similar setups paddle upwind and sail back. Unless you packed a leeboard that’s what I’d do.
Having said that, look at the creative approaches to this issue by others. Nothing is truly new. I read an instructible by Tim Andersen sailing a Canadian canoe upwind using an old street sign attached to a line. It would dangle overboard to leeward on one tack, then he’d just toss it over the other side for the next tack. Seemed to work fine for him. I can’t imagine that it had the best fluid dynamics but it was free and as I say he made it work. Worth a try.
Edit: I just zoomed in on the image of the kayak. It seems to have leeboards already so a definitive yes, and why not.
That photo shows a BSD Batwing sail on an Easy Rider boat.
This kayak is missing, by far, the full potential of these rigs, as he doesn't have the BSD outriggers.
Add the amas, and you have a rig that will most definitely give a thrill ride, most definitely to windward, and up to 10kt, off the wind - A wet, exciting ride for sure......... DAMHIKT :~)
I have a Chesapeake Light Craft Chesapeake 17 Kayak that I picked up for practically free a couple of years ago. I need to redeck it, but I would be lying if I said I was not tempted to add their sailing kit to it. With sail options ranging from 40 to 70 square feet, I bet it would be a ripper across calmish waters.
Where i live the weather has become so unpredictable. it can go from no wind to 30 kts in minutes with no good forecasting. I don't always feel safe taking my 3000 lb full keel sailboat out. I also have a Bolger Teal with a 60 sf rig that gets very little use. A little more stable than a kayak, but less safe to capsize in. I would explore down wind type rigs that are easy to stow. going to windward might be more trouble than it is worth for the time that it can be used.
I built a CLC Mill Creek 16 with sailing rig for Lady Bird Lake - definitely a ‘lake in Texas’. My criteria were similar to yours. A blast going downwind or on a broad reach. Beam reach also good depending on the breeze. Beam and to windward, it started going sideways. Doesn’t point worth beans, at least in mine hands with a balanced lug. Stable enough if you pay attention. Only once accidental swamping when I took a friend with poor balance and no boat sense out in a stiff breeze. Being long and light, it’s a bear to come about. I haven’t mastered that. Easy enough to put the stern across. The rig is light and a gybe easy to control. Sails in almost no wind as it has minimal draft and weight. One of the early Electric Paddles drives it very nicely when the wind dies or is coming straight up the ‘lake’ created by a dam on the Colorado River. Paddles well also.
I owned a Hobie Adventure Island sailing kayak with amas and a 65sqft furling sail from 2006-2020. I loved it! Lots of room for gear in dry bags, you could sail, paddle, or peddle it and it was at least satisfactory sailing up wind (probably 45 degrees off the wind, but could improve if peddled and sailed at the same time) and exceptional on a reach (speeds up to 10kts). It did not tack well unless loaded with gear because it was light, but I learned to power through tacks with the peddle system. Even with the amas it peddled or paddled easily. Great for fishing as well because you could stand up on it. Boats that do many things are always a compromise, but for how I used it, the Adventure Island was wonderful. I only sold it (for more than I bought it) because I got a mooring in my harbor and put a 17 ft. cat boat on it. I then got a lighter, pure kayak for traveling.
In 1977 into 1983 I had a Folbot Super (2 person) boat. The manufacturer said it was NOT a kayak, although you could have fooled me. Anyway, I bought their sail rig for it and used it around Ketchikan and Prince of Wales Island, paddling and sailing both. Used it again while going to Portland Community College in Oregon, on the Columbia River including out of Hood River before the wind surfers had found it. Then I worked on the Bridger-Teton National Forest out of Pinedale and sailed it on the lakes there. The last time I did, one of the mountain winds came up unexpectedly and I capsized. To get the boat right side up again I pulled the sail down and somehow the whole rig got loose and went to the bottom of Fremont lake, never to be seen again. and entirely my fault. I agree with all the encouragement here. I would talk to the folks at CLC and ask if they can put you in contact with some other folks who use their sail rig on your kayak.
You might explore the Hobie Adventure Island Mirage drive options. They make a solo and a tandem version. Sails very well due to the fully battened main and that roller furls against the mast, the outboard amas that give it great stability and a centerboard that prevents sideways drift. The Mirage drive is very efficient and leaves the hands free to attend to other tasks. It is a sit-on-top so it can be wet in a sea and I find the rudder control a bit small for its function. It is not the lightest kayak out there but the sail arrangements and Mirage drive offset that a great deal.
I originally posited this question asking specifically about the CLC Mill Creek 13 with stock rig. That got omitted in the original post. I need a simple, “get it done”, light weight, reasonable afternoon, lakes in Texas, throw on the roof racks, paddle, and sail, kinda job. Anybody sailed a Mill Creek 13? Thanks