I’d suggest looking at “Scallywag”, a new bigger version of the Scamp that John Welsford has just finished designing. At 15’4”, she has the room that you say you want, as well as being a balanced lug yawl, and has a “cabin” that can actually seat 4 people. SCA did a design preview recently that you can find on-line. Plans should be available very soon.
Neither of your choices seem to fit your objectives very closely. Though the Caledonia Yawl is beautiful for pure sailing, your comments about your current boat would indicate that you really want a comfortable cockpit. The SCAMP is just too small for prolonged comfort.
Based upon your article, I would recommend that you take a serious look at Chesapeake Light Craft's PocketShip. The PocketShip is only 15-feet long and balances safety, sailing, and comfort extraordinarily well. Having built one CLC kit, I'm sure that you are, as I am, well-aquainted with the quality of their kits and support.
As a 77-year old boater, I think that 15 feet is about as small as I can be comfortable in for more than 30 minutes at a time
I respectfully disagree. I like PocketShip a lot, but (especially in a small boat) everything is a tradeoff until it isn't. Spending space (and weight, and building complexity) on a cabin when OP specifies "likely daysail only" seems counterproductive.
Nate said that he wants to be able to take 4 people out for daysails comfortably. Unless the 4 people are experienced open-boat sailors, I would not assume that they all know how to move safely around an open boat while underway. The PocketShip's cockpit seats 4 comfortably and does not require those people to actively shift their weight for trim while tacking.
The PocketShip's cabin is not necessarily wasted space even for daysailing. It gives people a safe place to stow their gear and a safe place to get out of the sun or rain when necessary. A little privacy for a porta-potti doesn't hurt either.
Nate mentions trailer sailing, camp cruising, and possibly also leaving it on a mooring for the summer. The PocketShip is perfect for all of these. I don't know if you've ever left an open boat on a mooring for very long, but PocketShip's lockable cabin and self-bailing cockpit certainly make better sense than a boat full of rainwater or stolen gear.
I operate on Narragansett Bay, not too far from Nate's waters, and I use my boat in similar ways. A lockable cabin and self-bailing cockpit make things a lot easier on a boat owner and guests.
I'd go with the Caledonia Yawl. Very seaworthy, and the utility of the ketch/yawl rig is unmatched. If it gets windy, drop the main and proceed under perfect control with jib-and-mizzen. I sailed a considerably larger ketch for 25 years, and I love them!
Nate, I've sailed alongside two or three Caledonia's several times(Old Bay Club, Chesapeake). I've seen them single handled in 15 to 20 and in light winds. They are an amazing boat and give you a lot more room for friends and overnight trip storage. I'd love to sail a Scamp, to check it out, but I have no pull to want to build or own one.
Your Peapod, I feel the same way. I'd actually love to own one but would have to completely redesign the interior for the same reasons you stated.
Have fun up there - 74' to 81' I used to know the Cape like the back of my hand - RobK
If I were building a small sailboat, I would build " Pocketship". It's still small enough to tow behind a small vehicle. It has a decent cockpit and a nice place to sit in the cabin in bad weather. It also sails very well according to the videos I have seen. Cheers,
From a builder's perspective, one who has built a couple of John's designs, the SCAMP,s clever trick of placing a lovely lapstrake topsides on a simple dory hull makes the construction of the boat easier than it might otherwise be. But from a sailing perspective, if I were sharing one of these boats with three other adults, I'd for sure rather have us all in the Caledonia Yawl.
A lovely choice. My first instinct is the Scamp as smaller often means more usage. But it is hard to see four comfortable in a scamp. If having four is a baseline - go for the yawl. If simple set up and go as a single hander, do the Scamp. And maybe it is a false choice - build both!
I have two boats, one I built from kit (CLC Passagemaker, a tad shorter than your CLC Lighthouse Tender, yes) . . . and I also have a SCAMP (bias-declared). I drove 5 days to Sequim Washington to pick it up (a 2015 built by Gig Harbor folks), about three years old at the time, I believe. I sail it on Lake Superior in some 'inland sea' water. The wooden passagemaker lives on a small inland lake and I get it when you say it's uncomfortable for two unless one is a 12 year old with perfectly good hips and knees. Mine are almost 70 years old. What I do like about the SCAMP is that I can have four adults (keeping in mind average weight of my crew is probably 155 lbs!) and is amply comfortable with three (although I am mostly solo). The off-centre 'centre-board' -- in the trunk beneath the starboard seat means the cockpit is open! That is a real plus for me. The bench seating isn't quite high enough for me to see over the cuddy edge (I'm 6 foot) but I spend time on the gunwales anyways or on a cushion. Yes, only 12 foot long (11, 11?) but from my home to the harbour and out onto Lake Superior fully rigged is generally 40 minutes. As for ease of emptying the cockpit (you mentioned something about that) -- I reef early and cannot imagine ever going over in this boat (unlike my Passagemaker). I'm rambling but did want to say I find this boat easy to tow, easily to rig and launch, and fun to sail solo or with one or two others. My brother also owns a SCAMP and I'll sometimes just hop into their boat and the three of us (now, we're NOT big people and we get along well) -- are happy as clams for every 3-4 hours of sailing here (Thunder Bay) or by Kenora (another big lake, Lake of the Woods). All from me. Oh, one more though --is that the SCAMP is a rather dry boat. The stretch-SCAMP does intrigue me as well . . . something to consider for sure.
Although you want the option to carry more company, you have to ask yourself what percentage of the time do you sail solo, with one other, or with three other adults? I twice made the mistake of moving up in size to accommodate imaginary guests who never seemed to appear. The second question is, if you move to a larger cockpit boat, can you still handle it comfortably by yourself? Caledonia Yawl is beautiful but looks to be a bit to handle single-handed compared to the SCAMP. Another question you will need to ask yourself is, what level of activity can I count on from my guests if the weather turns foul? Frightened, inexperienced guests are a liability in most small boats. These are some of the questions you will want to mull over in your quest for the perfect boat.
I have built and sailed a SCAMP and a yawl rigged Tirrik which is the Caledonia’s smaller sister (17’). From a building point of view I would choose the SCAMP, although there is more to her it’s all easy stuff whereas the Caledonia is somewhat more challenging. You can get A SCAMP in kit form which saves a lot of effort, not so the Caledonia. If you decide to build a Caledonia then do take out a subscription to OffCenter Harbor to get access to some excellent videos by Geoff Kerr (of Two Daughter’s Boatworks) where he builds a Caledonia - start to finish and also later fitting an eCarry electric motor. From a single-handed sailing point of view I would definitely go for the SCAMP, she is just a delight, really stable and yet responsive and surprisingly fast. In a blow you’ve got to be really on the ball with a Caledonia, certainly I’ve nearly come to grief in my Tirrik as it’s easy to dip the lee rail and swamp the boat. Personally I think there is plenty of room for four in a SCAMP but she is at her best with two-up. Several people have suggested CLC’s Pocketship and John Welsford’s soon to be released Scallywag, both would be fine boats and would be more suitable as a camp cruiser for a multi-day trip. A final thought on the self-drawing cockpit you mention, most SCAMP builders go for a footwell and lazarette which makes it non self draining; however, SCAMP is a very dry boat, in the times I have had mine out I have been able to dry her out with a wipe over with a cloth after sailing all day.
Ok, to refine some of my comments: while i would like the option of possibly carrying my whole family, realistically, i will be single handing or having one extra passenger aboard most of the time I suspect.
I live the double endedness of my peapod, and in a way the Caledonia Yawl is like a big sister in shape to it, only much roomier. I had not heard of the scalywag, it could be very interesting mashup of scamp and CY.
In regards to the pocketship, i love Chesapeake Light Craft, and thoroughly enjoyed building my peapod, the pocketship is not for me. The boom crutch just bothers me. I know it’s necessary and normal, but for me it would be like a stone in my shoe. Since we are talking boats, i think i am allowed to have an irrational dislike of a component. Also looks a bit involved to build, but that is less of a concern.
I am mid-50’s of average flexibility (if i am being generous) and fully expect to get older than that and still sailing, and would not like to “age out” of a boat prematurely.
John Welsford's newest design - Scallywag ? Could be your answer ...a 'stretched' Scamp 15'
I’d suggest looking at “Scallywag”, a new bigger version of the Scamp that John Welsford has just finished designing. At 15’4”, she has the room that you say you want, as well as being a balanced lug yawl, and has a “cabin” that can actually seat 4 people. SCA did a design preview recently that you can find on-line. Plans should be available very soon.
Nate,
Neither of your choices seem to fit your objectives very closely. Though the Caledonia Yawl is beautiful for pure sailing, your comments about your current boat would indicate that you really want a comfortable cockpit. The SCAMP is just too small for prolonged comfort.
Based upon your article, I would recommend that you take a serious look at Chesapeake Light Craft's PocketShip. The PocketShip is only 15-feet long and balances safety, sailing, and comfort extraordinarily well. Having built one CLC kit, I'm sure that you are, as I am, well-aquainted with the quality of their kits and support.
As a 77-year old boater, I think that 15 feet is about as small as I can be comfortable in for more than 30 minutes at a time
Cheers,
Dick
I respectfully disagree. I like PocketShip a lot, but (especially in a small boat) everything is a tradeoff until it isn't. Spending space (and weight, and building complexity) on a cabin when OP specifies "likely daysail only" seems counterproductive.
I agree with you about compromises.
Nate said that he wants to be able to take 4 people out for daysails comfortably. Unless the 4 people are experienced open-boat sailors, I would not assume that they all know how to move safely around an open boat while underway. The PocketShip's cockpit seats 4 comfortably and does not require those people to actively shift their weight for trim while tacking.
The PocketShip's cabin is not necessarily wasted space even for daysailing. It gives people a safe place to stow their gear and a safe place to get out of the sun or rain when necessary. A little privacy for a porta-potti doesn't hurt either.
Nate mentions trailer sailing, camp cruising, and possibly also leaving it on a mooring for the summer. The PocketShip is perfect for all of these. I don't know if you've ever left an open boat on a mooring for very long, but PocketShip's lockable cabin and self-bailing cockpit certainly make better sense than a boat full of rainwater or stolen gear.
I operate on Narragansett Bay, not too far from Nate's waters, and I use my boat in similar ways. A lockable cabin and self-bailing cockpit make things a lot easier on a boat owner and guests.
Pocketship may not easily take a crew.
Len, I'm not quite sure of the point you are making.
https://www.clcboats.com/images/photos/boats/pocketship/facebook/PocketShip-Race-051719-16-THMB.jpg
https://www.clcboats.com/images/photos/boats/pocketship/pocketship-wbf2012_by-jerry-and-mary-richards2.jpg
I'd go with the Caledonia Yawl. Very seaworthy, and the utility of the ketch/yawl rig is unmatched. If it gets windy, drop the main and proceed under perfect control with jib-and-mizzen. I sailed a considerably larger ketch for 25 years, and I love them!
Nate, I've sailed alongside two or three Caledonia's several times(Old Bay Club, Chesapeake). I've seen them single handled in 15 to 20 and in light winds. They are an amazing boat and give you a lot more room for friends and overnight trip storage. I'd love to sail a Scamp, to check it out, but I have no pull to want to build or own one.
Your Peapod, I feel the same way. I'd actually love to own one but would have to completely redesign the interior for the same reasons you stated.
Have fun up there - 74' to 81' I used to know the Cape like the back of my hand - RobK
Scamp is great for one camp cruising or two for an afternoon. If you want to take your family for any length of time then calidonia yawl.
If I were building a small sailboat, I would build " Pocketship". It's still small enough to tow behind a small vehicle. It has a decent cockpit and a nice place to sit in the cabin in bad weather. It also sails very well according to the videos I have seen. Cheers,
Norm, Vancouver Island, BC
https://www.clcboats.com/shop/boats/wooden-sailboat-kits/pocketship/pocketship-sailing-pocket-cruiser-kit.html
I second your recommendation!
From a builder's perspective, one who has built a couple of John's designs, the SCAMP,s clever trick of placing a lovely lapstrake topsides on a simple dory hull makes the construction of the boat easier than it might otherwise be. But from a sailing perspective, if I were sharing one of these boats with three other adults, I'd for sure rather have us all in the Caledonia Yawl.
A lovely choice. My first instinct is the Scamp as smaller often means more usage. But it is hard to see four comfortable in a scamp. If having four is a baseline - go for the yawl. If simple set up and go as a single hander, do the Scamp. And maybe it is a false choice - build both!
Go for the Caledonia Yawl, based on your needs and aesthetic!!!! _/)
Try a Sea Pearl 21
I have two boats, one I built from kit (CLC Passagemaker, a tad shorter than your CLC Lighthouse Tender, yes) . . . and I also have a SCAMP (bias-declared). I drove 5 days to Sequim Washington to pick it up (a 2015 built by Gig Harbor folks), about three years old at the time, I believe. I sail it on Lake Superior in some 'inland sea' water. The wooden passagemaker lives on a small inland lake and I get it when you say it's uncomfortable for two unless one is a 12 year old with perfectly good hips and knees. Mine are almost 70 years old. What I do like about the SCAMP is that I can have four adults (keeping in mind average weight of my crew is probably 155 lbs!) and is amply comfortable with three (although I am mostly solo). The off-centre 'centre-board' -- in the trunk beneath the starboard seat means the cockpit is open! That is a real plus for me. The bench seating isn't quite high enough for me to see over the cuddy edge (I'm 6 foot) but I spend time on the gunwales anyways or on a cushion. Yes, only 12 foot long (11, 11?) but from my home to the harbour and out onto Lake Superior fully rigged is generally 40 minutes. As for ease of emptying the cockpit (you mentioned something about that) -- I reef early and cannot imagine ever going over in this boat (unlike my Passagemaker). I'm rambling but did want to say I find this boat easy to tow, easily to rig and launch, and fun to sail solo or with one or two others. My brother also owns a SCAMP and I'll sometimes just hop into their boat and the three of us (now, we're NOT big people and we get along well) -- are happy as clams for every 3-4 hours of sailing here (Thunder Bay) or by Kenora (another big lake, Lake of the Woods). All from me. Oh, one more though --is that the SCAMP is a rather dry boat. The stretch-SCAMP does intrigue me as well . . . something to consider for sure.
Although you want the option to carry more company, you have to ask yourself what percentage of the time do you sail solo, with one other, or with three other adults? I twice made the mistake of moving up in size to accommodate imaginary guests who never seemed to appear. The second question is, if you move to a larger cockpit boat, can you still handle it comfortably by yourself? Caledonia Yawl is beautiful but looks to be a bit to handle single-handed compared to the SCAMP. Another question you will need to ask yourself is, what level of activity can I count on from my guests if the weather turns foul? Frightened, inexperienced guests are a liability in most small boats. These are some of the questions you will want to mull over in your quest for the perfect boat.
I have built and sailed a SCAMP and a yawl rigged Tirrik which is the Caledonia’s smaller sister (17’). From a building point of view I would choose the SCAMP, although there is more to her it’s all easy stuff whereas the Caledonia is somewhat more challenging. You can get A SCAMP in kit form which saves a lot of effort, not so the Caledonia. If you decide to build a Caledonia then do take out a subscription to OffCenter Harbor to get access to some excellent videos by Geoff Kerr (of Two Daughter’s Boatworks) where he builds a Caledonia - start to finish and also later fitting an eCarry electric motor. From a single-handed sailing point of view I would definitely go for the SCAMP, she is just a delight, really stable and yet responsive and surprisingly fast. In a blow you’ve got to be really on the ball with a Caledonia, certainly I’ve nearly come to grief in my Tirrik as it’s easy to dip the lee rail and swamp the boat. Personally I think there is plenty of room for four in a SCAMP but she is at her best with two-up. Several people have suggested CLC’s Pocketship and John Welsford’s soon to be released Scallywag, both would be fine boats and would be more suitable as a camp cruiser for a multi-day trip. A final thought on the self-drawing cockpit you mention, most SCAMP builders go for a footwell and lazarette which makes it non self draining; however, SCAMP is a very dry boat, in the times I have had mine out I have been able to dry her out with a wipe over with a cloth after sailing all day.
Ok, to refine some of my comments: while i would like the option of possibly carrying my whole family, realistically, i will be single handing or having one extra passenger aboard most of the time I suspect.
I live the double endedness of my peapod, and in a way the Caledonia Yawl is like a big sister in shape to it, only much roomier. I had not heard of the scalywag, it could be very interesting mashup of scamp and CY.
In regards to the pocketship, i love Chesapeake Light Craft, and thoroughly enjoyed building my peapod, the pocketship is not for me. The boom crutch just bothers me. I know it’s necessary and normal, but for me it would be like a stone in my shoe. Since we are talking boats, i think i am allowed to have an irrational dislike of a component. Also looks a bit involved to build, but that is less of a concern.
I am mid-50’s of average flexibility (if i am being generous) and fully expect to get older than that and still sailing, and would not like to “age out” of a boat prematurely.
I'd also look closely at Welsford's Long Steps, Pathfinder, and the Lillistone Periwinkle.