While I’m considering a trailerable, quiet, slow and fuel-efficient outboard cabin cruiser—maybe electric—I hope to always have a sailboat, too. Age and agility concerns make a pilothouse attractive, but as long as I can keep daysailing and camp cruising with my small sailboat—simply loving being on the water— I’ll be an enthusiastic sailor. But I feel no guilt in also enjoying my small, salty and comfy little motorboat…and wish we could all get past “us vs. them” attitudes when it comes to sail vs. power. There are great boats in both camps, especially in our world of small watercraft.
I feel my prose has been misinterpreted. There was no intent to set up a polarizing debate. Rather, to point out the obvious benefits of the art of sailing. I have never witnessed a person at the helm of a sailboat that doesn’t relish the moment of shutting down the engine and immediately entering a state of bliss as the sails take control. That zen like experience doesn’t happen with RPMs. Cheers to everyone afloat.
Perhaps a better title would be "Shift to a Powerboat Would be Unfilling For Me" which would make it clear the writer is talking about himself, and not intending to make a pronouncement of general applicability.
All the above, there’s a time, place, and use for sailing, power, rowing, paddling, and drifting. Own the capability to do them all and the only shifting required will be to be honest with yourself about which one you find yourself using the most.
Mine is a smallish boat (please stop saying it's cute), and I have learned to enjoy rowing when the wind has not yet arrived, or has disappeared. That said, on Lake Superior I tend NOT to head out when the forecast calls for gusts above a certain number AND it's an off-shore breeze. When asked about my concerns for when I'm older, like in 20 years when I'm 90 (!); my reply is my only fear is that with the weather changing so much, as of late, and the warming we're noticing world-wide, I might have trouble finding an ice-floe when I'm needing one (smile). S
It is interesting that in all of these discussions no one ever mentions using electric power. It is always between rag-bagger and stink-potters. A small pilot house cruiser that is powered by electric motors has all the benefits of a power boat without any of its disadvantages. Electric outboards or inboards can propel a 20-25 ft boat at hull speed just as well as a 10-15 hp outboard and with a range of up to 50 - 60 miles on a charge. E-putters unite!! we are neither rag-baggers or stink potters. I have been cruising Puget Sound in an electric St. Pierre Dory for 26 years and will soon migrate to an e-powered 22' C-Dory.
I actually have a Torqeedo as my “auxiliary.” Yes, it makes motoring more palatable but I use it as little as possible. The analogy of a manual transmission as opposed to an automatic in an automobile may offer some explanation as to my mindset. The demands and therefore the rewards of sailing and the constant education it provides are benefits that I don’t derive while powering. I’m not anti powerboat, I’m just not an enthusiast.
Thank you, Tom. Solar sailing is more and more feasible as lithium battery technology accelerates and their prices drop. There's no way to justify buying a lead-acid battery anymore, except for engine starting. The cost of solar panels have never been lower, and the quality is incredible. I'm looking at some very powerful neodymium PMAC motors -- and they're much cheaper than the good old Motenergy traction motors that have been the converter's go-to power source. The future of electric boating is very, very bright.
Electric is great IF and that is a big IF you have access to a power source and/or a generous array of solar panels and batteries that you can afford. A 5 - 6 hp outboard is under $ 2,000 new maybe $ 1,000 to $ 1,200 in good used condition. As far as I know, Tesla does not have charging ports within 150 miles from where I sail (smile)
This is a good place to try and resolve some misconceptions about the costs of electric propulsion for small boats.
First of all I would never use a Tesla powerwall on a boat: wrong lithium chemistry. And, the costs of electric propulsion are coming down. The costs of an electric outboard that has the equivalent power of a 5-6 hp gas outboard is now $3000 ( I just bought two of them). Yes, batteries still have a fairly high initial cost but this is carried over their life span which these days is over 10 years (I have had one set that is 12 years old and still going strong). A battery bank that would move a 22ft cabin cruiser 50 miles on a charge at hull speed (150 miles at half hull speed) costs about $6000 for a good quality pack with a 5-10 yr warranty, and $3500 at the low end. Pro-rated over 10 years that comes to a cost of $350-$600/year. What is the annual cost of gasoline and outboard maintenance relative to that?
We generally like to spend nights at marinas where we can recharge overnight. The warm showers and the exploration of all the interesting places on land are what attracts us. If we don't go to marinas then solar panels are our fall back. Based on my 20 years of experience with solar panels on my boats (24-26 ft) I find that there is enough space on the cabin tops to provide enough power to cruise at 2.8 mph directly when the sun is out; or if we want to go at hull speed it takes 4 hour of sunlight to travel one hour. The total cost of a solar panel system of this size with flexible panels that weigh only 25-30 lbs is about $700.
The other big advantage of electric power is the quiet. My wife and I can actually talk to each other while we are cruising! And, seals and porpoises actually come right up to us to check us out.
Funny story: I was rowing my SCAMP out beyond the break-wall in the Thunder Bay Harbour (Canadian spelling, there). Sail was hoisted but no wind so I thought to enjoy an hour of so rowing to the music of my choice. Someone on shore thought I was signalling for help (the flash of my carbon-fibre blades, I'm guessing). Search and rescue came out to save me (I have a picture to prove it). I thanked them for their concern (any excuse for a drill, the rescue captain said, as he smiled with a thumbs-up). He also conceded that it had occurred to the crew that IF I truly was in trouble, I would likely have been rowing towards shore, not AWAY from shore -- all things considered. Agreed.
The book “Constant Waterman” comes to mind… being an Old Geezer myself (80) there is a lot of “Latitude” in our “Golden Years” Ha!!…As long as you are out on the water or at least dreaming of being out there…it’s ALL good!!!
Have to add my 2 cents here as I am an old Captain Curmudgin having just downsized to my 2nd retirement 17' Menger catboat (acceptable outboard), as first retirement was a 22' Marshall catboat (lovely old one-pop deisel). Other smaller boats, engineless.
Will always prefer my ears to be filled with orchestral sounds of wind, birds and cutting wake. Sailing is a mindset of working your body & mind in unison with natural forces...what reminds me I'm alive!
*what I would like to see & read about instead is Sailor ingenuity creating work-around energy independence!! (Done with deep cell batteries!)
I appreciate the article, which represents the dilemma many of us have or will face. I think of it as a balance between the journey and the destination. If its solely about the journey, the sailboat wins hands-down. If it’s partly the journey, partly the destination, a motor helps get to the destination reliably. If it’s mostly about the destination, a travel trailer works best. My wife and I have made this transition over a 35-year period, which also tracks our physical fitness, agility and sense of mortality over time as we age, from daysailors to a sailing microcruiser to a comfortable power cruiser to Airstreams. Sailboats have too many tasks that are done ON the boat with many tripping hazards. My wife was always afraid I’d end up in the drink while setting up the sprit, standing on the small, slippery foredeck of our Devlin Eider 16-footer. Tasks on powerboats are more likely to be done from IN the boat, affording more safety and comfort for the less enthusiastic members of the party. (Do you want to sail alone or go powerboating with your spouse?) Granted that powerboats can be loud, smelly, expensive to operate (do the math, 4 gph, 12 kts cruising speed, $6/gal = $2/nautical mile on our Surfscoter 22 and the sound level required earplugs) but they are more suited to reliable schedules which makes planned meet-ups with others at destinations easier and less adventurous members of the party less anxious when they know they can be safely in harbor before dark. Any boat limits access to destinations by speed and the need for navigable waters. Once you’ve run out of interesting places to visit from the water, then its time for inveterate cruisers to look at Airstreams...
In August, for my 79th birthday, I bought myself a Nonsuch 22 sailboat. it's the perfect Old Man's boat as every thing is done from the safety of the cockpit. I went out today, Boxing Day and it was blowing 17 to 18 knots form the SE. I had a blast! Cheers, Norm
I've done it... twice. Both times I enjoyed the ease and speed at first. But then, hmmm... it became a bit like driving a car. Very easy, very fast and a good way to get from here to there. Still to enjoy the trip, paddling or sailing is the way I'd prefer to spend my time.
I'd shift to total-kayak before I'd go for a motor boat. The motor noise/fumes/expense defeat the whole purpose (for me) in getting out on the water in the first place. At best, a motor is something to get you out of the marina under full control in very close quarters, then turned off as soon as possible.
So sad that world has shifted to such polarity, and so sorry to have stirred up a hornets' nest. The wonderful thing about life is that there are so many different ways to enjoy it. Sail vs. Power, Red vs. Blue, Back vs. White, E-Bike vs Pedal Only, Tennis vs Pickleball, Right vs. Left, skis vs snowboards - we can become "Purists" and limit our exposure, thereby assuring the correctness of our "position", or as Marty suggests we can take a broader view to recognize that there can be joy in all camps. Hope to see everyone out there in '24 - even if it's just swimming. Happy New Year!
I’ve been mostly sail powered for my half-century of boating, but have also enjoyed a lot of canoeing and kayaking, and also some power boating. I’ve downsized my sailboats from 26’ to 25’ to 22’ to now 13’, and my current sailboat is simple and easy to sail. I still paddle, and even in my seventies my wife and I are planning our next backcountry canoe trip. I’ve built 13 boats over the years, all sail or paddle powered, and for my 14th boat, I bought an old wooden runabout that needs some TLC to render seaworthy again. I do plan to enjoy a bit of motoring about in my sunset years, but I’m not getting rid of my sailboat or canoe or kayaks any time soon!
I have purchased two E-propulsion outboard motors rated at 3kW each (equivalent to two 6 hp outboards). I will be purchasing four 48V 100AH batteries (two for each motor). I believe this will be more than enough to power it. I cruised in my 26ft St. Pierre Dory at 5 mph with about 2.4 kW. I expect my range to be about 40-50 miles at 5mph and three times that at 2.5-3mph. Also the costs of E power are dropping fast. I understand that a new 6 hp gas motor costs $1700 - $2000. The comparable e-motors cost $3000. High end batteries with 20kWhrs of energy, with a life span of at least 10years, and warrantied for 5-10 years cost $6000-$8000. The pro-rated cost of batteries then comes down to $600/year. At $5/gal for marine gas this is equal to 120 gal/year. At 15cents/kWhr the cost of electricity for the boat comes out to about 7 cents/mile. We usually overnight, and recharge, at marinas where the cost of electricity is usually included in the price.
While I’m considering a trailerable, quiet, slow and fuel-efficient outboard cabin cruiser—maybe electric—I hope to always have a sailboat, too. Age and agility concerns make a pilothouse attractive, but as long as I can keep daysailing and camp cruising with my small sailboat—simply loving being on the water— I’ll be an enthusiastic sailor. But I feel no guilt in also enjoying my small, salty and comfy little motorboat…and wish we could all get past “us vs. them” attitudes when it comes to sail vs. power. There are great boats in both camps, especially in our world of small watercraft.
I feel my prose has been misinterpreted. There was no intent to set up a polarizing debate. Rather, to point out the obvious benefits of the art of sailing. I have never witnessed a person at the helm of a sailboat that doesn’t relish the moment of shutting down the engine and immediately entering a state of bliss as the sails take control. That zen like experience doesn’t happen with RPMs. Cheers to everyone afloat.
Perhaps a better title would be "Shift to a Powerboat Would be Unfilling For Me" which would make it clear the writer is talking about himself, and not intending to make a pronouncement of general applicability.
All the above, there’s a time, place, and use for sailing, power, rowing, paddling, and drifting. Own the capability to do them all and the only shifting required will be to be honest with yourself about which one you find yourself using the most.
Mine is a smallish boat (please stop saying it's cute), and I have learned to enjoy rowing when the wind has not yet arrived, or has disappeared. That said, on Lake Superior I tend NOT to head out when the forecast calls for gusts above a certain number AND it's an off-shore breeze. When asked about my concerns for when I'm older, like in 20 years when I'm 90 (!); my reply is my only fear is that with the weather changing so much, as of late, and the warming we're noticing world-wide, I might have trouble finding an ice-floe when I'm needing one (smile). S
It is interesting that in all of these discussions no one ever mentions using electric power. It is always between rag-bagger and stink-potters. A small pilot house cruiser that is powered by electric motors has all the benefits of a power boat without any of its disadvantages. Electric outboards or inboards can propel a 20-25 ft boat at hull speed just as well as a 10-15 hp outboard and with a range of up to 50 - 60 miles on a charge. E-putters unite!! we are neither rag-baggers or stink potters. I have been cruising Puget Sound in an electric St. Pierre Dory for 26 years and will soon migrate to an e-powered 22' C-Dory.
I actually have a Torqeedo as my “auxiliary.” Yes, it makes motoring more palatable but I use it as little as possible. The analogy of a manual transmission as opposed to an automatic in an automobile may offer some explanation as to my mindset. The demands and therefore the rewards of sailing and the constant education it provides are benefits that I don’t derive while powering. I’m not anti powerboat, I’m just not an enthusiast.
Thank you, Tom. Solar sailing is more and more feasible as lithium battery technology accelerates and their prices drop. There's no way to justify buying a lead-acid battery anymore, except for engine starting. The cost of solar panels have never been lower, and the quality is incredible. I'm looking at some very powerful neodymium PMAC motors -- and they're much cheaper than the good old Motenergy traction motors that have been the converter's go-to power source. The future of electric boating is very, very bright.
Electric is great IF and that is a big IF you have access to a power source and/or a generous array of solar panels and batteries that you can afford. A 5 - 6 hp outboard is under $ 2,000 new maybe $ 1,000 to $ 1,200 in good used condition. As far as I know, Tesla does not have charging ports within 150 miles from where I sail (smile)
This is a good place to try and resolve some misconceptions about the costs of electric propulsion for small boats.
First of all I would never use a Tesla powerwall on a boat: wrong lithium chemistry. And, the costs of electric propulsion are coming down. The costs of an electric outboard that has the equivalent power of a 5-6 hp gas outboard is now $3000 ( I just bought two of them). Yes, batteries still have a fairly high initial cost but this is carried over their life span which these days is over 10 years (I have had one set that is 12 years old and still going strong). A battery bank that would move a 22ft cabin cruiser 50 miles on a charge at hull speed (150 miles at half hull speed) costs about $6000 for a good quality pack with a 5-10 yr warranty, and $3500 at the low end. Pro-rated over 10 years that comes to a cost of $350-$600/year. What is the annual cost of gasoline and outboard maintenance relative to that?
We generally like to spend nights at marinas where we can recharge overnight. The warm showers and the exploration of all the interesting places on land are what attracts us. If we don't go to marinas then solar panels are our fall back. Based on my 20 years of experience with solar panels on my boats (24-26 ft) I find that there is enough space on the cabin tops to provide enough power to cruise at 2.8 mph directly when the sun is out; or if we want to go at hull speed it takes 4 hour of sunlight to travel one hour. The total cost of a solar panel system of this size with flexible panels that weigh only 25-30 lbs is about $700.
The other big advantage of electric power is the quiet. My wife and I can actually talk to each other while we are cruising! And, seals and porpoises actually come right up to us to check us out.
Funny story: I was rowing my SCAMP out beyond the break-wall in the Thunder Bay Harbour (Canadian spelling, there). Sail was hoisted but no wind so I thought to enjoy an hour of so rowing to the music of my choice. Someone on shore thought I was signalling for help (the flash of my carbon-fibre blades, I'm guessing). Search and rescue came out to save me (I have a picture to prove it). I thanked them for their concern (any excuse for a drill, the rescue captain said, as he smiled with a thumbs-up). He also conceded that it had occurred to the crew that IF I truly was in trouble, I would likely have been rowing towards shore, not AWAY from shore -- all things considered. Agreed.
The book “Constant Waterman” comes to mind… being an Old Geezer myself (80) there is a lot of “Latitude” in our “Golden Years” Ha!!…As long as you are out on the water or at least dreaming of being out there…it’s ALL good!!!
Have to add my 2 cents here as I am an old Captain Curmudgin having just downsized to my 2nd retirement 17' Menger catboat (acceptable outboard), as first retirement was a 22' Marshall catboat (lovely old one-pop deisel). Other smaller boats, engineless.
Will always prefer my ears to be filled with orchestral sounds of wind, birds and cutting wake. Sailing is a mindset of working your body & mind in unison with natural forces...what reminds me I'm alive!
*what I would like to see & read about instead is Sailor ingenuity creating work-around energy independence!! (Done with deep cell batteries!)
I appreciate the article, which represents the dilemma many of us have or will face. I think of it as a balance between the journey and the destination. If its solely about the journey, the sailboat wins hands-down. If it’s partly the journey, partly the destination, a motor helps get to the destination reliably. If it’s mostly about the destination, a travel trailer works best. My wife and I have made this transition over a 35-year period, which also tracks our physical fitness, agility and sense of mortality over time as we age, from daysailors to a sailing microcruiser to a comfortable power cruiser to Airstreams. Sailboats have too many tasks that are done ON the boat with many tripping hazards. My wife was always afraid I’d end up in the drink while setting up the sprit, standing on the small, slippery foredeck of our Devlin Eider 16-footer. Tasks on powerboats are more likely to be done from IN the boat, affording more safety and comfort for the less enthusiastic members of the party. (Do you want to sail alone or go powerboating with your spouse?) Granted that powerboats can be loud, smelly, expensive to operate (do the math, 4 gph, 12 kts cruising speed, $6/gal = $2/nautical mile on our Surfscoter 22 and the sound level required earplugs) but they are more suited to reliable schedules which makes planned meet-ups with others at destinations easier and less adventurous members of the party less anxious when they know they can be safely in harbor before dark. Any boat limits access to destinations by speed and the need for navigable waters. Once you’ve run out of interesting places to visit from the water, then its time for inveterate cruisers to look at Airstreams...
In August, for my 79th birthday, I bought myself a Nonsuch 22 sailboat. it's the perfect Old Man's boat as every thing is done from the safety of the cockpit. I went out today, Boxing Day and it was blowing 17 to 18 knots form the SE. I had a blast! Cheers, Norm
I've done it... twice. Both times I enjoyed the ease and speed at first. But then, hmmm... it became a bit like driving a car. Very easy, very fast and a good way to get from here to there. Still to enjoy the trip, paddling or sailing is the way I'd prefer to spend my time.
I'd shift to total-kayak before I'd go for a motor boat. The motor noise/fumes/expense defeat the whole purpose (for me) in getting out on the water in the first place. At best, a motor is something to get you out of the marina under full control in very close quarters, then turned off as soon as possible.
So sad that world has shifted to such polarity, and so sorry to have stirred up a hornets' nest. The wonderful thing about life is that there are so many different ways to enjoy it. Sail vs. Power, Red vs. Blue, Back vs. White, E-Bike vs Pedal Only, Tennis vs Pickleball, Right vs. Left, skis vs snowboards - we can become "Purists" and limit our exposure, thereby assuring the correctness of our "position", or as Marty suggests we can take a broader view to recognize that there can be joy in all camps. Hope to see everyone out there in '24 - even if it's just swimming. Happy New Year!
I’ve been mostly sail powered for my half-century of boating, but have also enjoyed a lot of canoeing and kayaking, and also some power boating. I’ve downsized my sailboats from 26’ to 25’ to 22’ to now 13’, and my current sailboat is simple and easy to sail. I still paddle, and even in my seventies my wife and I are planning our next backcountry canoe trip. I’ve built 13 boats over the years, all sail or paddle powered, and for my 14th boat, I bought an old wooden runabout that needs some TLC to render seaworthy again. I do plan to enjoy a bit of motoring about in my sunset years, but I’m not getting rid of my sailboat or canoe or kayaks any time soon!
I have purchased two E-propulsion outboard motors rated at 3kW each (equivalent to two 6 hp outboards). I will be purchasing four 48V 100AH batteries (two for each motor). I believe this will be more than enough to power it. I cruised in my 26ft St. Pierre Dory at 5 mph with about 2.4 kW. I expect my range to be about 40-50 miles at 5mph and three times that at 2.5-3mph. Also the costs of E power are dropping fast. I understand that a new 6 hp gas motor costs $1700 - $2000. The comparable e-motors cost $3000. High end batteries with 20kWhrs of energy, with a life span of at least 10years, and warrantied for 5-10 years cost $6000-$8000. The pro-rated cost of batteries then comes down to $600/year. At $5/gal for marine gas this is equal to 120 gal/year. At 15cents/kWhr the cost of electricity for the boat comes out to about 7 cents/mile. We usually overnight, and recharge, at marinas where the cost of electricity is usually included in the price.