Since you are going to all the trouble of building a slot in the top, why not make it a real Bolger birdwatcher type slot (as others have suggested)? It would make so many things easier. Sure it may not look as shippy, but so much more practical. On my Michalak AF3, it was pretty easy to raise a 22’ solid wood mast with that cabin slot top. I’ve seen some very functional covers for the slot tops that still have a pretty clean look.
Other thoughts. Why are the seat flats continued into the cuddy? It is too low to use them as seats, and leaves the sheltered seating area rather constricted. With that cabin top, a normal adult will have to sit on the floor. Even using a porta-potty will need to be done in the cockpit anyway.
With the great beam and tall rig, it will sail like a cat boat. It is a cat boat. But you don't make a boat smaller by making it shorter. Any particular reason why the same displacement and hull weight wasn't made longer and narrower? It would be a less powerful sail boat, but as it stands, no one will want to row it for long. I foresee a lot of motor use.
Hi Glenn. Seat tops continuing under made some sense structurally. Though they won't be used as seats, they'll make a nice shelf when camping/sleeping aboard, with the open bins below. I suppose it's an area that could be customized some by builders.
As much as we like sail and oar boats, we didn't set out to make a good rowboat with the Old Salt. Maximum stability and comfort. We think she's going to sail brilliantly even in light air, but intend to have a small electric outboard as well.
Great looking boat that should sail spectacularly. Most of these boats will end up with outboard power. An outboard on a bracket will look really really really bad. An outboard on the transom will look bad. Please design in a well for the outboard as designs by Dudley Dix, F Vivier or Marty Loken’s latest power project. I know designers, builders and purists hate wells but the boats will look much much better for it.
An improvement. As a note, it wasn't the mast weight that was an issue. It's my experience of trying to keep a mast aligned vertically while dropping it through a small hole in anything but a flat calm. This was first brought home to me while stepping the mast of our Naples Sabot in the middle of San Francisco Bay. By comparison, walking up the 23' mast of our Culler Sloop Boat in the same conditions was _much_ easier. This looks like a good method.
I have a few O'Day Daysailers and a Cape Cod Bullseye - both step masts through the cuddy to a step on the floor below (which you can't see standing on the cabin top - of course). The DS mast is pretty light and I can haul it around pretty good - but I HATE (actually REALLY HATE) standing on top of the cabin with the boat on a shaky trailer trying to spear the mast into the partners and hit the step socket below. I've acutally only seen it done once and I'm pretty sure that was just s...luck! The Bullseye on the other hand has a much heavier mast section and (if I'm being honest) have aged out of getting up there and poking it into place (although I still retain some signifigant "old man strength" and my son calls it - I'm pretty sure if I fell off that deck I'd bounce like a dead cat!). I've thought many times about just getting the trusty sawzall out and making a slot - but I'm pretty sure the cuddy cabin is structural important. My other idea (which I think I'll do someday) is to make a gaff rig for the Bullseye (like the H12 1/2) and solve the problem that way. But my ComPac Picnic Cat - (best old guy boat ever!!). If you can give one of those a good look for anything you can steal from that design. All that said, I love the mast step idea and the "hip holders" too. How does the water ballest tank work to fill / drain? Just send a few sketches and offsets adn I'll just get started building one!!! LOVE THE DESIGN - PLEASE make plans available ASAP!!!!
The mast system looks good. My 2 part aluminum mast weighs 18 lb and is easy to raise into a gate on the deck of the Walkabout.
My most recent old sailor accommodation has been to ditch the tiller in favor of rope steering hooked to a tilting whipstaff on one side. This cleared up space for a padded bench seat across the cockpit. I can just slide across the seat to shift my weight, not jump side to side, and my knees are much happier.
Agree with Glenn that the cuddy would be better fully open for bulky storage. Does the cuddy itself provide enough structure if the seats end at the cuddy bulkhead?
We've been debating the cuddy seats/bins. Structurally we can build without them—giving a more open interior, but given how the boat will mostly be used, the shelf and bins might be better. But maybe we'll leave it open and let builders decide how best to use.
I think you are missing one thing: as an aging sailor you would love to get your boat rigged without climbing up on the boat on the trailer. That is as big an obstacle as the average mast. On my rounded pdr boat my laser rig can be stabbed from the ground (barely) so I never need to get in the boat on the trailer. Also, you always get you boat dirty if you board in the parking lot.
Each mast section and the folded sail and spars fit in the cockpit of mine. I launch first then rig on the water, easy at a dock and still reasonable unless it's very rough. Dropping the rig and raising it quickly for passing the many local bridges was one of my goals, the Old Salt looks like it would work the same.
Cuddy serves quite a few purposes. Dry stowage, a spot to duck out of the sun or weather, and a partial covering and base for a cockpit tent if sleeping aboard. Another surprisingly big advantage I've found with SCAMP's partial cabin s that it blocks wind and spray and general makes sailing more pleasant. It's also the spot your kids will end up spending a lot of time. Footwell is designed at 31" wide, wide enough to accommodate the Thermarest XXL inflatable sleeping pad.
31" wide for Inflatable - perfect! I converted to the 30" inflatables a few years back (ground camping) and found they help one stay deeper in sleep as one tosses and turns, no side edge concerns. I'm still imagining a couple of battens to create a conestoga wagon tarp coming back from the cuddy - then I don't care how long it rains...
Since you are going to all the trouble of building a slot in the top, why not make it a real Bolger birdwatcher type slot (as others have suggested)? It would make so many things easier. Sure it may not look as shippy, but so much more practical. On my Michalak AF3, it was pretty easy to raise a 22’ solid wood mast with that cabin slot top. I’ve seen some very functional covers for the slot tops that still have a pretty clean look.
Other thoughts. Why are the seat flats continued into the cuddy? It is too low to use them as seats, and leaves the sheltered seating area rather constricted. With that cabin top, a normal adult will have to sit on the floor. Even using a porta-potty will need to be done in the cockpit anyway.
With the great beam and tall rig, it will sail like a cat boat. It is a cat boat. But you don't make a boat smaller by making it shorter. Any particular reason why the same displacement and hull weight wasn't made longer and narrower? It would be a less powerful sail boat, but as it stands, no one will want to row it for long. I foresee a lot of motor use.
Hi Glenn. Seat tops continuing under made some sense structurally. Though they won't be used as seats, they'll make a nice shelf when camping/sleeping aboard, with the open bins below. I suppose it's an area that could be customized some by builders.
As much as we like sail and oar boats, we didn't set out to make a good rowboat with the Old Salt. Maximum stability and comfort. We think she's going to sail brilliantly even in light air, but intend to have a small electric outboard as well.
Thanks for the feedback.
Great looking boat that should sail spectacularly. Most of these boats will end up with outboard power. An outboard on a bracket will look really really really bad. An outboard on the transom will look bad. Please design in a well for the outboard as designs by Dudley Dix, F Vivier or Marty Loken’s latest power project. I know designers, builders and purists hate wells but the boats will look much much better for it.
An improvement. As a note, it wasn't the mast weight that was an issue. It's my experience of trying to keep a mast aligned vertically while dropping it through a small hole in anything but a flat calm. This was first brought home to me while stepping the mast of our Naples Sabot in the middle of San Francisco Bay. By comparison, walking up the 23' mast of our Culler Sloop Boat in the same conditions was _much_ easier. This looks like a good method.
I have a few O'Day Daysailers and a Cape Cod Bullseye - both step masts through the cuddy to a step on the floor below (which you can't see standing on the cabin top - of course). The DS mast is pretty light and I can haul it around pretty good - but I HATE (actually REALLY HATE) standing on top of the cabin with the boat on a shaky trailer trying to spear the mast into the partners and hit the step socket below. I've acutally only seen it done once and I'm pretty sure that was just s...luck! The Bullseye on the other hand has a much heavier mast section and (if I'm being honest) have aged out of getting up there and poking it into place (although I still retain some signifigant "old man strength" and my son calls it - I'm pretty sure if I fell off that deck I'd bounce like a dead cat!). I've thought many times about just getting the trusty sawzall out and making a slot - but I'm pretty sure the cuddy cabin is structural important. My other idea (which I think I'll do someday) is to make a gaff rig for the Bullseye (like the H12 1/2) and solve the problem that way. But my ComPac Picnic Cat - (best old guy boat ever!!). If you can give one of those a good look for anything you can steal from that design. All that said, I love the mast step idea and the "hip holders" too. How does the water ballest tank work to fill / drain? Just send a few sketches and offsets adn I'll just get started building one!!! LOVE THE DESIGN - PLEASE make plans available ASAP!!!!
Looking real comfy - But I'd have to raise the cuddy 8" and bring it back another 8 or 12". Now I'm feeling a roomy multi overnighter for one.
Maybe a "day sail" version and a "camper" version??? For me I'll not be camping in my small boat - but for sure out for the day!
The mast system looks good. My 2 part aluminum mast weighs 18 lb and is easy to raise into a gate on the deck of the Walkabout.
My most recent old sailor accommodation has been to ditch the tiller in favor of rope steering hooked to a tilting whipstaff on one side. This cleared up space for a padded bench seat across the cockpit. I can just slide across the seat to shift my weight, not jump side to side, and my knees are much happier.
Agree with Glenn that the cuddy would be better fully open for bulky storage. Does the cuddy itself provide enough structure if the seats end at the cuddy bulkhead?
We've been debating the cuddy seats/bins. Structurally we can build without them—giving a more open interior, but given how the boat will mostly be used, the shelf and bins might be better. But maybe we'll leave it open and let builders decide how best to use.
I think you are missing one thing: as an aging sailor you would love to get your boat rigged without climbing up on the boat on the trailer. That is as big an obstacle as the average mast. On my rounded pdr boat my laser rig can be stabbed from the ground (barely) so I never need to get in the boat on the trailer. Also, you always get you boat dirty if you board in the parking lot.
Yeah, rigging from outside the boat isn't likely. But everything is a tradeoff, as this boat should be a lot more comfortable on the water.
Each mast section and the folded sail and spars fit in the cockpit of mine. I launch first then rig on the water, easy at a dock and still reasonable unless it's very rough. Dropping the rig and raising it quickly for passing the many local bridges was one of my goals, the Old Salt looks like it would work the same.
Not sure what the cuddy is for. Can’t use it for sleeping even halfway covered with a tent in the cockpit. Be a better design without it.
Cuddy serves quite a few purposes. Dry stowage, a spot to duck out of the sun or weather, and a partial covering and base for a cockpit tent if sleeping aboard. Another surprisingly big advantage I've found with SCAMP's partial cabin s that it blocks wind and spray and general makes sailing more pleasant. It's also the spot your kids will end up spending a lot of time. Footwell is designed at 31" wide, wide enough to accommodate the Thermarest XXL inflatable sleeping pad.
31" wide for Inflatable - perfect! I converted to the 30" inflatables a few years back (ground camping) and found they help one stay deeper in sleep as one tosses and turns, no side edge concerns. I'm still imagining a couple of battens to create a conestoga wagon tarp coming back from the cuddy - then I don't care how long it rains...
Agreed! Tent design will be fun. And it looks like we’re removing the seats inside cabin so it’s more open and builders can add what they want.
Awesome plan!
Please include building vlog on YOUTUBE! What size oars are needed for such a wide beam?