Fewer designs, more (affordable) boats. I see all sorts of designs that I would like to have, and of course new designs are welcome, but for the typical boating public few beautiful, affordable small boats are available. Nowadays the ‘regular guy’ wanting a small fishing boat gets a plastic kayak... can’t afford something better. Nicely designed small craft are either build it yourself ... which most people will never do .... or way too expensive ... even without engines. A 14 foot rowboat for $6000 - $10000 ... really. Affordable places to keep a boat... ha! We need some practical, beautiful, affordable designs so ‘beautiful boating’ is widely available and affordable.
I'd like to echo this comment. By far the easiest way to go boating is from a marina, but the typical public marina in my Northwest city charges nearly $10 per foot per month for slip space; so $150/month for a 15 ft. sailboat and there are no 15 ft. slips, the smallest being 20 ft.
From what I see on the lake, in the past 20 years it's become either illegal or impossible to fish from an old aluminum rowboat. Apparently the fish have figured something out and will only bite hooks from $40,000 boats. You are allowed to fish from a kayak IF you have $4,000 of electronic gear on it.
I am curious to see what happens to the small boat community. There are precious few manufacturers left, but many, many designers. Most boats are home-built. When these boats go for sale they usually sell for less than the build cost. And there are still a lot of old classic-plastic sailboats on the market.
I have two suggestions. Those who like to build boats should build two at a time. One for themselves and one to sell at about 125% of material cost. This is not a business model, of course, but it would subsidize the hobby.
The second suggestion would be for manufacturers of kits to sell more hulls pre-assembled. The buyer finishes the epoxy and finishing, which is a large part of man hours. I think that could get a lot of boats out on the market.
Some of these crazy sport-fishing boats are a product of marketing via fishing tournaments whereby a big engine is needed to get you to the best spot fast. LOL. Sadly it’s become big business. Fiberglass raft with a 90hp engine. I’d like to see a tournament with no engines allowed! Or maybe 10 HP max.
I would like to see a production boat, about 18 feet long with a 7 foot beam, with a displacement hull and small outboard motor(9.9-20hp), two wide berths, location for a portapot, small galley in an enclosed cabin with 6 foot standing headroom, with a small aft cockpit and small fore deck with anchor well. Steering station inside cabin. This would be an ideal boat for long distance cruising on calm waters, bays, rivers and lakes. Something you could sleep aboard in reasonable comfort. Perfect craft for us older sailors to remain on the water, but with less effort. Just my thoughts.
Camp cruising, long skinny, small hp outboard powered boat to efficiently motor up fast running rivers, with the ability to row downstream. Should be able to carry a heavy load in an easily driven hull, with a bow transom for easy river bank landing and walking off without drama.
I have owned countless boats large and small. Perhaps my favorite was my Malibu Outrigger--not really a proa, since one tacked instead of shunting. But the sailing was thrilling. My Hobie 16 was faster and MUCH more reliable (something major broke on the Malibu almost every time I sailed it). But there was just something about the Malibu. . . I would love a proa about the same size--18 to 20 ft--wouldn't have to be cartoppable; a small trailer would be fine--that was riggable by one person, with spartan accommodation for one, possibly two, capable of coastal cruising, and very important: reefable while underway (which neither the Malibu nor the Hobie were).
Ken, I am building a cartop Malibu outrigger that is fiberglass and super light and doesn’t break. I could send you some pictures or go on facebook and see the video of the one with red sail under “Malibu Outrigger” I am making one a little different. My email is onwaterdesigns@gmail.com
I think lengthy set up time is a major killer of sailing. Even more sad is that it is a rather historically recent condition.
The search for ever greater windward ability is, I believe, a major cause of this. Maximizing windward ability requires high aspect ratio sails. Not only that, but such requires limiting the rig to one or two sails, usually a main and a jib.
Compounding this the fact that, in order for the jib to work properly, the jib must have a tight headstay.
It appears that traditional sailing work boats tended to avoid having jibs. And when the had them, they were intended only to increase sail area, not to improve windward ability.
The mainsail was, more often than not, low aspect ratio. When such was not the case, there were usually two (with no jib).
The reason for this was to limit the length of the mast so it would be easier to raise and lower and would not need stays (a main reason they usually did not have jibs).
Terry, I think my CROW, at 15' 8" in length and shallow draft but with a full queen bed and two couches, that one can sail from inside the cabin or in the cockpit, might fit the discription...BestRoy
I would like to see more designs for self build with more large windows... a low power cruising boat with liveboard capabilities and with window views that would be greatly pleasing... even more houseboat designs with large windows... I see many new production houseboats in Europe but not many in North America and prices are out of this world... can we build them cheaper ?
Sailors, naval architects, and builders talk about the "arms race" where adding more sail requires more ballast, beam, rigging, hiking ability, and/or multihull outrigger spread. This can make exciting racing, but it's frustrating to see a displacement hull that is at war with itself, overcanvassed and overweight (not car-toppable; sometimes not even trailerable) - and still usually carries one guy at three knots.
I'd love to see the arms race run in reverse - a boat suitable for how you really use it (not the long expedition you'll never take, the friends or family who are always too busy, or how viking or pirate the ads look) with the least drudgery possible.
One cool way to get there would be a development class built around a common, easy (and preferably small) stock sail - all the better if the race clock started with the boats unrigged - and few/no other parameters.
A 16-18’ Catamaran that is totally self sustainable using solar, battery and electric outboard. Lightweight roof with solar panels that is retractable so as to fit into a home garage. Trailerable (less than 8’ beam an can be purchased as a kit. Minimum accommodations for 2-3 day cruises. Some sort of head (simple composting?). Old guy solar cruiser. Should be lakes & coastal cruising capable.
Something car-toppable, cruisable for two plus gear, stable, fast and easy to sail (so maybe a strip-build proa or tri) AND fairly dry, but light enough for one person to cartop, and reasonably quick to rig for a day-sail. A boat you can get through moderate surf, beach just about anywhere (and drag over rocks).
Have been reading Larry Brown's articles about the Portland Pudgy in some old SCAs. Seems that there are already old-guy, easy-to-rig boats out there. For me most of the work on my O'Day Widgeon has involved making it easier to rig and to sail. Very rewarding.
I’ve been hunting around for a glued lapstrake design for an electric launch - something like a Duffy. Haven’t seen much in this niche. Anybody have any ideas? Duffy’s are very popular in SoCal.
Fewer designs, more (affordable) boats. I see all sorts of designs that I would like to have, and of course new designs are welcome, but for the typical boating public few beautiful, affordable small boats are available. Nowadays the ‘regular guy’ wanting a small fishing boat gets a plastic kayak... can’t afford something better. Nicely designed small craft are either build it yourself ... which most people will never do .... or way too expensive ... even without engines. A 14 foot rowboat for $6000 - $10000 ... really. Affordable places to keep a boat... ha! We need some practical, beautiful, affordable designs so ‘beautiful boating’ is widely available and affordable.
I'd like to echo this comment. By far the easiest way to go boating is from a marina, but the typical public marina in my Northwest city charges nearly $10 per foot per month for slip space; so $150/month for a 15 ft. sailboat and there are no 15 ft. slips, the smallest being 20 ft.
From what I see on the lake, in the past 20 years it's become either illegal or impossible to fish from an old aluminum rowboat. Apparently the fish have figured something out and will only bite hooks from $40,000 boats. You are allowed to fish from a kayak IF you have $4,000 of electronic gear on it.
I am curious to see what happens to the small boat community. There are precious few manufacturers left, but many, many designers. Most boats are home-built. When these boats go for sale they usually sell for less than the build cost. And there are still a lot of old classic-plastic sailboats on the market.
I have two suggestions. Those who like to build boats should build two at a time. One for themselves and one to sell at about 125% of material cost. This is not a business model, of course, but it would subsidize the hobby.
The second suggestion would be for manufacturers of kits to sell more hulls pre-assembled. The buyer finishes the epoxy and finishing, which is a large part of man hours. I think that could get a lot of boats out on the market.
Some of these crazy sport-fishing boats are a product of marketing via fishing tournaments whereby a big engine is needed to get you to the best spot fast. LOL. Sadly it’s become big business. Fiberglass raft with a 90hp engine. I’d like to see a tournament with no engines allowed! Or maybe 10 HP max.
Actually I’m philosophically opposed to fishing tournaments.
I would like to see a production boat, about 18 feet long with a 7 foot beam, with a displacement hull and small outboard motor(9.9-20hp), two wide berths, location for a portapot, small galley in an enclosed cabin with 6 foot standing headroom, with a small aft cockpit and small fore deck with anchor well. Steering station inside cabin. This would be an ideal boat for long distance cruising on calm waters, bays, rivers and lakes. Something you could sleep aboard in reasonable comfort. Perfect craft for us older sailors to remain on the water, but with less effort. Just my thoughts.
Second that heartily!
Camp cruising, long skinny, small hp outboard powered boat to efficiently motor up fast running rivers, with the ability to row downstream. Should be able to carry a heavy load in an easily driven hull, with a bow transom for easy river bank landing and walking off without drama.
I was about to click on the "Easy-rigged "old guy" daysailer" but isn't that slot filled by the Scamp?
I then chose "Powercruiser with sailboat look" mostly out of curiosity as to what a designer might create with that mission.
Something that has intrigued me for ages is the Bartender Timbercoast 22. https://bartenderboats.com/product/22-timbercoast/
The Devlin Lit'l Coot 18 has also fascinated me. https://devlinboat.com/litl-coot-18-bilge-keel/
Is there a boat somewhere in between in size between these two?
I have owned countless boats large and small. Perhaps my favorite was my Malibu Outrigger--not really a proa, since one tacked instead of shunting. But the sailing was thrilling. My Hobie 16 was faster and MUCH more reliable (something major broke on the Malibu almost every time I sailed it). But there was just something about the Malibu. . . I would love a proa about the same size--18 to 20 ft--wouldn't have to be cartoppable; a small trailer would be fine--that was riggable by one person, with spartan accommodation for one, possibly two, capable of coastal cruising, and very important: reefable while underway (which neither the Malibu nor the Hobie were).
Ken, I am building a cartop Malibu outrigger that is fiberglass and super light and doesn’t break. I could send you some pictures or go on facebook and see the video of the one with red sail under “Malibu Outrigger” I am making one a little different. My email is onwaterdesigns@gmail.com
Of course I clicked Mini Houseboat but it is helpful to see that almost 50% want an easy to rig day sailer! BestRoy
I think lengthy set up time is a major killer of sailing. Even more sad is that it is a rather historically recent condition.
The search for ever greater windward ability is, I believe, a major cause of this. Maximizing windward ability requires high aspect ratio sails. Not only that, but such requires limiting the rig to one or two sails, usually a main and a jib.
Compounding this the fact that, in order for the jib to work properly, the jib must have a tight headstay.
It appears that traditional sailing work boats tended to avoid having jibs. And when the had them, they were intended only to increase sail area, not to improve windward ability.
The mainsail was, more often than not, low aspect ratio. When such was not the case, there were usually two (with no jib).
The reason for this was to limit the length of the mast so it would be easier to raise and lower and would not need stays (a main reason they usually did not have jibs).
Modern yachting changed all of that.
Perhaps now it is time to reconsider.
And extended scamp with a cabin for cosy overnighting, would seem to be the perfect board for this old sailor.
Terry,
Check out Long Steps by Scamp designer John Welsford. Exactly what you're talking about.
Terry, I think my CROW, at 15' 8" in length and shallow draft but with a full queen bed and two couches, that one can sail from inside the cabin or in the cockpit, might fit the discription...BestRoy
I would like to see more designs for self build with more large windows... a low power cruising boat with liveboard capabilities and with window views that would be greatly pleasing... even more houseboat designs with large windows... I see many new production houseboats in Europe but not many in North America and prices are out of this world... can we build them cheaper ?
Check out our DIANNE'S ROSE, tiny houseboat Rich! Google images and you will see that she fits your wishes well! All the best Roy
My 3 specs for old guy´s sailing boat:
1. No need to get on deck during sailing
2. Possibility to sit "indoors" and sail protected from wind and rain
3. Easily beachable
Drawings for Matt Leayden's Enigma, would be perfect!
(Matt has already published his building notes with pics.)
Sailors, naval architects, and builders talk about the "arms race" where adding more sail requires more ballast, beam, rigging, hiking ability, and/or multihull outrigger spread. This can make exciting racing, but it's frustrating to see a displacement hull that is at war with itself, overcanvassed and overweight (not car-toppable; sometimes not even trailerable) - and still usually carries one guy at three knots.
I'd love to see the arms race run in reverse - a boat suitable for how you really use it (not the long expedition you'll never take, the friends or family who are always too busy, or how viking or pirate the ads look) with the least drudgery possible.
One cool way to get there would be a development class built around a common, easy (and preferably small) stock sail - all the better if the race clock started with the boats unrigged - and few/no other parameters.
A 16-18’ Catamaran that is totally self sustainable using solar, battery and electric outboard. Lightweight roof with solar panels that is retractable so as to fit into a home garage. Trailerable (less than 8’ beam an can be purchased as a kit. Minimum accommodations for 2-3 day cruises. Some sort of head (simple composting?). Old guy solar cruiser. Should be lakes & coastal cruising capable.
Something car-toppable, cruisable for two plus gear, stable, fast and easy to sail (so maybe a strip-build proa or tri) AND fairly dry, but light enough for one person to cartop, and reasonably quick to rig for a day-sail. A boat you can get through moderate surf, beach just about anywhere (and drag over rocks).
Have been reading Larry Brown's articles about the Portland Pudgy in some old SCAs. Seems that there are already old-guy, easy-to-rig boats out there. For me most of the work on my O'Day Widgeon has involved making it easier to rig and to sail. Very rewarding.
Easy Rig Day Sailor for “Old Guys”…just about covers it!..
I’ve been hunting around for a glued lapstrake design for an electric launch - something like a Duffy. Haven’t seen much in this niche. Anybody have any ideas? Duffy’s are very popular in SoCal.