It’s inevitable that the terrific Montgomery 17 will win this match-up, in part because they’re better-known, but I have to offer support for the Halman/Nordica 20, which I’d take into wilder sea conditions than the able Monty 17. The Nordica/Halman hull designs, inspired by Danish double-enders of the 1800’s, are stunningly seaworthy…especially with the ballast mentioned above in the intro. There’s nothing, just nothing to fault about the Lyle Hess-designed Monty 17, but having owned and sailed a Halman 20 (that I should have kept!), I’ve gotta lean toward the “solid and safe” Nordica/Halman 20’s. - Marty
Yes, the M17 winning seems inevitable as with the usual suspects (WWP15/19, M15/17, Sage 17, SCAMP). Part of the genius of the mini cruiser madness, I hope, is that people will open their eyes to new possibilities!
Thank you for opening my eyes to the Halman/Nordica 20!
I can’t wait for the Drascombe Lugger vs Montgomery 15 in the other bracket. In fact, the other bracket has quite a few big matchups.
This is another case where two of the best boats in the whole competition are duking it out in the first round. An M17 took me to Ketchikan in the first R2AK, and a San Juans cruise on another one was the key bonding adventure for me and my now wife, so I am a die hard partisan for the Monty, but I love the Nordicas and Halmans too. One element of the M17 that doesn’t get as much credit is the MASSIVE cockpit, which comfortably seats four adults up wind speeds in the high teens. Even more than the cabin, I think the huge amount of cockpit space makes the M17 the perfect camp cruiser. There’s so much room to do whatever you and your crew need to do, and it’s easily boom-tented. These boats have earned the hype. I hope to always have mine.
At least we're more or less equal as far as boat size/type goes with this match up; no apples v.s. oranges. I just learned a LOT about the Halman/Nordica. I remember seeing one many years ago, in Ketchikan. Cute little boat. But what I have read today, they (at least the Halman) weren't finished properly and there seems to be a lot of work required to get one completed. Of course by now that has probably been done if the boat is in reasonable condition.
Hard choice here; I took the Monty, although the other intrigues me....
I had an M17 #18 and really enjoyed it. What a great camp-cruiser, with some very memorable trips in the San Juans and Gulf Islands. At 45 years old and with older sails, it still sailed great, motored great, and, as Ted mentions, hosted great for daysails in the picnic-bench-sized cockpit. One day in the Gulf Islands with full main/genoa in 15-20 knots of wind stands out as a really demonstration of her sailing ability. I no longer have the boat but am sure it will be a good boat for the new owners for years to come.
That said, I'm also a huge fan of Nordica/Halmans. My brother just got one that he's reassembling so we can buddy boat next spring/summer (I live aboard a larger cruiser that is not small). We haven't sailed it yet, but are excited by the reports and videos online of it sailing well in even more wind than I'd want the Monty in. The cockpit fits four big adults, albeit more snugly than the Monty. Hard to beat the curvaceous double-ended design.
I wish these had been on opposite sides of the bracket! Tough call, but I'm voting for the underdog Halman/Nordica.
Back in the day. SWMBO and lived aboard on San Diego Bay. Many of our neighbors were robust, offshore ragboat cruisers. The venerable Westsail 32 was well-represented. Of course, other legends such as the manifold Perry creations also dotted the docks. Some had actually "gone outside." Many still retained the gloss of hope for a grand adventure. But. Really, none of these vessels ever went for a daysail. And, quite frankly, the time, effort, and money required to build, buy, and maintain such a thing goes, almost-universally, unreturned. The boats who can turn on a dime, and give you nine cents' change; the ones you can expect to come about in a New York Second are the ones who get to make that after-work spontaneous hop. Especially, in a discussion of "best overall" trailerboats, the ones who would arguably take better care of you in a hard chance off the Queen Charlottes, or one of the more infamous California headlands, perhaps, will almost certainly never get the opportunity to show their stuff. So, for the use generally intended for these boats, the pert, nimble, Monty has to take the honors, this time. dan
I hate to vote against a salty looking boat like the Halman 20 (though it is a shame to spoil that lovely stern by the necessity of hanging an outboard motor on it), but with such a high D/L and low SA/D ratios (as compared to the Montgomery 17), I doubt she'd be very rewarding until the wind really pipes up. Maybe a good choice for sailing in areas with lots of wind? Plus, I'll bet they heave to splendidly when things get really wild. Still, for all around trailer sailing where we don't mean to go out in half a gale, the Montgomery 17 would be less trouble to tow and launch and probably more fun to sail in the sort of winds we usually expect in most places.
I owned an M17 for 10 years and enjoyed it immensely. Very sea worthy, pointed very well, sailed comfortably, single-handed very well. My favorite sailboat
If I had a cozy harbor slip bordering on extensive cruising grounds I would pick the Halman/Nordica 20. Anything less than that I have to go with the Monty 17. I owned two over the years separated by ownership of a Flicka 20, a Cape Dory 28 and an S2 35 and the best overall "bang for the buck " remained with the Monty. I recently sold the second one due to age , the fact that it does weigh five times my present much less capable dinghy and the fact that towing and launching the Monty with arthritic hands is not fun.
Adding a Kick-Up HDPE Rudder to the Montgomery is superior to the wooden rudders. Less resistance because it slices through the water like a hot knife through kitchen butter and no wobble looseness. Thats what I use on my Potter 19. I'm so glad I bought it 16 yrs ago for $300.
I currently own a 2008 M17 and have to agree with all of the positive praise that is heaped upon it. I'm not going to reiterate all those virtues here but I will say that I love that huge cockpit, love the solid quality build, and that this boat will hands down take more than I can (and that's on the Pacific Ocean). Nothings perfect for everyone however and I do have to admit that I'm tired of smacking my head on the bronze/brass dawgs on the ports. I also don't like an aft facing forward hatch (I don't trailer so the safety factor is lost on me). Lastly, and this is kind of a biggy for me, I don't like not having any positive flotation foam. This M17 was a custom build so I don't know if that's the case with all of them but I think a boat this size should have it. All in all I have to vote M17, but I have to admit that I really like that double end on the Nordica 20. If the N20 were yawl rigged like my old Nimble 20, my vote might have wavered.
Feel bad voting against the N20, but I do feel that the SCA Mini Cruiser winner must be a practical trailerable, and the N20 just isn't. I googled images of them sitting on a trailer, and that's a boat I'd call "transportable" rather than "trailerable."
From the comments I've read, the Montgomery 17 is perfect, right out of the box. Nothing to change, modify, or tweak there (please tell me if I got it wrong). So I choose the Halman/Nordica, which you can play around with to suit your fancy without feeling guilty. I'm also liking more cabin space, for longer cruises, lots of ballast...and it looks cool.
I chose the M 17 because it is more trailerable and nearly as seaworthy as the N 20.
Although I think the N 20 gets pretty close to being a blue-water boat. If I had to choose between the two of them to cross an ocean, I'd pick the N 20.
I have not had the pleasure of a Nordica 20…But I have owned & sailed a Monty 17…I have nothing but good to say about the “17”. Though now in my “Golden Years”…ha! I have gone back to a Monty 15. M15. “six”
It’s inevitable that the terrific Montgomery 17 will win this match-up, in part because they’re better-known, but I have to offer support for the Halman/Nordica 20, which I’d take into wilder sea conditions than the able Monty 17. The Nordica/Halman hull designs, inspired by Danish double-enders of the 1800’s, are stunningly seaworthy…especially with the ballast mentioned above in the intro. There’s nothing, just nothing to fault about the Lyle Hess-designed Monty 17, but having owned and sailed a Halman 20 (that I should have kept!), I’ve gotta lean toward the “solid and safe” Nordica/Halman 20’s. - Marty
Yes, the M17 winning seems inevitable as with the usual suspects (WWP15/19, M15/17, Sage 17, SCAMP). Part of the genius of the mini cruiser madness, I hope, is that people will open their eyes to new possibilities!
Thank you for opening my eyes to the Halman/Nordica 20!
I can’t wait for the Drascombe Lugger vs Montgomery 15 in the other bracket. In fact, the other bracket has quite a few big matchups.
This is a "Sophie's Choice" of small boats. The right choice would be both.
This is another case where two of the best boats in the whole competition are duking it out in the first round. An M17 took me to Ketchikan in the first R2AK, and a San Juans cruise on another one was the key bonding adventure for me and my now wife, so I am a die hard partisan for the Monty, but I love the Nordicas and Halmans too. One element of the M17 that doesn’t get as much credit is the MASSIVE cockpit, which comfortably seats four adults up wind speeds in the high teens. Even more than the cabin, I think the huge amount of cockpit space makes the M17 the perfect camp cruiser. There’s so much room to do whatever you and your crew need to do, and it’s easily boom-tented. These boats have earned the hype. I hope to always have mine.
At least we're more or less equal as far as boat size/type goes with this match up; no apples v.s. oranges. I just learned a LOT about the Halman/Nordica. I remember seeing one many years ago, in Ketchikan. Cute little boat. But what I have read today, they (at least the Halman) weren't finished properly and there seems to be a lot of work required to get one completed. Of course by now that has probably been done if the boat is in reasonable condition.
Hard choice here; I took the Monty, although the other intrigues me....
I had an M17 #18 and really enjoyed it. What a great camp-cruiser, with some very memorable trips in the San Juans and Gulf Islands. At 45 years old and with older sails, it still sailed great, motored great, and, as Ted mentions, hosted great for daysails in the picnic-bench-sized cockpit. One day in the Gulf Islands with full main/genoa in 15-20 knots of wind stands out as a really demonstration of her sailing ability. I no longer have the boat but am sure it will be a good boat for the new owners for years to come.
That said, I'm also a huge fan of Nordica/Halmans. My brother just got one that he's reassembling so we can buddy boat next spring/summer (I live aboard a larger cruiser that is not small). We haven't sailed it yet, but are excited by the reports and videos online of it sailing well in even more wind than I'd want the Monty in. The cockpit fits four big adults, albeit more snugly than the Monty. Hard to beat the curvaceous double-ended design.
I wish these had been on opposite sides of the bracket! Tough call, but I'm voting for the underdog Halman/Nordica.
Back in the day. SWMBO and lived aboard on San Diego Bay. Many of our neighbors were robust, offshore ragboat cruisers. The venerable Westsail 32 was well-represented. Of course, other legends such as the manifold Perry creations also dotted the docks. Some had actually "gone outside." Many still retained the gloss of hope for a grand adventure. But. Really, none of these vessels ever went for a daysail. And, quite frankly, the time, effort, and money required to build, buy, and maintain such a thing goes, almost-universally, unreturned. The boats who can turn on a dime, and give you nine cents' change; the ones you can expect to come about in a New York Second are the ones who get to make that after-work spontaneous hop. Especially, in a discussion of "best overall" trailerboats, the ones who would arguably take better care of you in a hard chance off the Queen Charlottes, or one of the more infamous California headlands, perhaps, will almost certainly never get the opportunity to show their stuff. So, for the use generally intended for these boats, the pert, nimble, Monty has to take the honors, this time. dan
I hate to vote against a salty looking boat like the Halman 20 (though it is a shame to spoil that lovely stern by the necessity of hanging an outboard motor on it), but with such a high D/L and low SA/D ratios (as compared to the Montgomery 17), I doubt she'd be very rewarding until the wind really pipes up. Maybe a good choice for sailing in areas with lots of wind? Plus, I'll bet they heave to splendidly when things get really wild. Still, for all around trailer sailing where we don't mean to go out in half a gale, the Montgomery 17 would be less trouble to tow and launch and probably more fun to sail in the sort of winds we usually expect in most places.
I have only sailed in an M17 once but it was a glorious sail. She was strong, quick and reliable.
I owned an M17 for 10 years and enjoyed it immensely. Very sea worthy, pointed very well, sailed comfortably, single-handed very well. My favorite sailboat
If I had a cozy harbor slip bordering on extensive cruising grounds I would pick the Halman/Nordica 20. Anything less than that I have to go with the Monty 17. I owned two over the years separated by ownership of a Flicka 20, a Cape Dory 28 and an S2 35 and the best overall "bang for the buck " remained with the Monty. I recently sold the second one due to age , the fact that it does weigh five times my present much less capable dinghy and the fact that towing and launching the Monty with arthritic hands is not fun.
Adding a Kick-Up HDPE Rudder to the Montgomery is superior to the wooden rudders. Less resistance because it slices through the water like a hot knife through kitchen butter and no wobble looseness. Thats what I use on my Potter 19. I'm so glad I bought it 16 yrs ago for $300.
I currently own a 2008 M17 and have to agree with all of the positive praise that is heaped upon it. I'm not going to reiterate all those virtues here but I will say that I love that huge cockpit, love the solid quality build, and that this boat will hands down take more than I can (and that's on the Pacific Ocean). Nothings perfect for everyone however and I do have to admit that I'm tired of smacking my head on the bronze/brass dawgs on the ports. I also don't like an aft facing forward hatch (I don't trailer so the safety factor is lost on me). Lastly, and this is kind of a biggy for me, I don't like not having any positive flotation foam. This M17 was a custom build so I don't know if that's the case with all of them but I think a boat this size should have it. All in all I have to vote M17, but I have to admit that I really like that double end on the Nordica 20. If the N20 were yawl rigged like my old Nimble 20, my vote might have wavered.
Feel bad voting against the N20, but I do feel that the SCA Mini Cruiser winner must be a practical trailerable, and the N20 just isn't. I googled images of them sitting on a trailer, and that's a boat I'd call "transportable" rather than "trailerable."
From the comments I've read, the Montgomery 17 is perfect, right out of the box. Nothing to change, modify, or tweak there (please tell me if I got it wrong). So I choose the Halman/Nordica, which you can play around with to suit your fancy without feeling guilty. I'm also liking more cabin space, for longer cruises, lots of ballast...and it looks cool.
I chose the M 17 because it is more trailerable and nearly as seaworthy as the N 20.
Although I think the N 20 gets pretty close to being a blue-water boat. If I had to choose between the two of them to cross an ocean, I'd pick the N 20.
I have not had the pleasure of a Nordica 20…But I have owned & sailed a Monty 17…I have nothing but good to say about the “17”. Though now in my “Golden Years”…ha! I have gone back to a Monty 15. M15. “six”