John - For the kind of project I’ve been envisioning, the $600 Com-Pac would be ideal. I’d probably be removing/replacing the entire deck/cabin mold on that particular model anyway, so how bad could the bare hull be…?? Maybe the worst thing about old sailboats, when it comes to restoration challenges, is when they have foam-sandwich or balsa-cored decks or cabintops that have rotted from water intrusion. So, if the whole kaboodle is going to the dump anyway, I suspect the bare hull would be okay.
Scott - The Freedom 21 is great as a sailboat, but my sense is that the hull has less freeboard (so probably less interior volume to play with) than, say, the Columbia 22. I’ll take a closer look, though…and thanks. - Marty
Com-Pac. The Sailboat Company in NC did some nice looking trawler conversions using Com-Pacs. I think they even sold glass cabin tops to fit. And I seem to recall one conversion that started with an O'Day, maybe a Mariner. Here's a link to Com-Pac conversion similar to what I remember SC was doing, but it's a bit smaller than what you're after...http://motorcityboatwerks.weebly.com/compac-16-pilothouse.html
Hi Marty, I just noticed that he has a YouTube video of the boat, too. And lots of other interesting YT content...Will need to spend some more time checking it out.
A little while ago I read an article on a couple who transformed their sailboat into a power boat. I looked all over but couldn't find it again. Good Old Boat? Small Boat Nation? Sail? SCA? Anyway, they made their modifications so they can be removed and the boat returned to original if/when they want to go sailing. Frustration is at max; where did I read that? It was a week or so ago. Aargh! Did anyone else see that article?
A couple of years ago I saw a conversion project like these that from a distance I mistook it as a devlin Dipper. The owner claimed he had removed the level from a cal 20 and built his cabin / wheel house on that boat. The resulting house wasn't very large as I remember and the boat looked nothing like a cal 20, but it seemed to work to a degree.
How about a Montgomery 17? It's smaller than your criteria but without the sailing bits is really a big little boat. The lapstrake hull is strong, functional, and salty looking. It would lend itself well to a raised cabin design. According to the SCA M17 article, no hull failures have ever been noted, very important for a good foundation.
Forget a heavy 9.9hp engine that you can’t lift, a five or six hp will do the same thing at a lower weight. it will be even more fuel efficient, and less expensive to purchase.
A fixed shallow keel model will allow you to get into skinny waters. It’s a boat that could be easier trailered, with no sailing bits to set up, launching should be a snap. You could really expand your boating geography.
Last night my wife and I grabbed Mexican to go and ate it on our M17. Carolyn says it’s one of the most comfortable cockpits we have ever had, even better than the SeaRay 26ft sport cruiser we had. She admits however that the dog got the best seat on the SeaRay. We brainstormed what the boat would be without the sailing rig, and tiller. Put up some canvas and a bimini in the cockpit and it would be a very capable trawler so to speak, without even adding a wheelhouse. A large little powerboat with a clear deck free of mast and standing rigging. No tiller handle impediment. A BBQ on the transom. We live in the tropics, so a cabin is HOT. Regardless, I would live with the boat in a powerboat configuration before making the wheelhouse conversion, find out what works, what doesn't, this would help with the planning of the wheelhouse change.
Rob - Semi-derelict M-17s are hard to find and because they’re such great sailboats I’d find it painful to cut into a nice one…but you’re right in saying the Montgomery hull would make a terrific foundation for our project. Thanks for the idea!
Over the past couple of years I've seen a few of the smaller MacGregor 19 powersailers looking for a new home. The last one was down in St. Michaels, MD, sans rig, had a recent-vintage Honda, and a wheel for steering...and was selling cheap. The obvious downside...not very traditional-looking. But would make a dandy mini-trawler that's super easy to trailer and launch with it's water ballast. And could get out of its own way if necessary.
Build a Welsford Pilgrim hull. Add a pilot house/cabin (slightly forward of present cabin ), delete the bowsprit and centreboard and modify the stem shape slightly to suit. Classic look, lightweight for towing, custom interior!
Once upon a time I had a Venture 24, I always thought if I were to trim the deck house off flush with the deck and build a fore cabin with a longer pilot house. The centerboard trunk in the cabin would meet the Fein Mulitsaw. The bottom of the hull is basically flat. The outboard would be enclosed in a box, retaining the outboard rudder.
Thanks—that’s another possible candidate, although assuming the 24 is one of Macgregor’s planing hulls, we obviously wouldn’t need a big outboard. - Marty
Earl - The barn-door rudder would be replaced by a far smaller rudder, and the motorboat would have wheel steering in the pilothouse, vs. tiller. - Marty
Kevin - My impression is that they were all inboards and double-enders. From what I know about the Chuggers, I’d want to totally replace their cabins and add an enclosed pilothouse…and also deal with removal of the inboard and its running gear. One owner says his round-bottomed Chugger rolls like crazy, so there’s that, too…but the idea of something like a lifeboat hull—which the Chuggers resemble—might be a possibility. Thanks for the recommendation. - Marty
Marty, I had the opportunity to use a Chugger for several years in Prince Rupert, owned by a doctor with zero mechanical skills, I did the maintenance and improvements. They do roll like a pig but when fitted with paravanes they have a comfortable ride, at least we thought so. Did several multiday trips out of Prince Rupert with the family, wife and I one small child a dog and a cat, It was perfect for us. In fact I'm looking at building a similar vessel, see my article in SCA, but with an outboard in a well and possibly a small lugsail for downwind travel. At 75 I've not much time left. The other option is a 22ft sailing canoe, also my design, for single handing overnight trips.
Brad - Thanks for the links, but we’re hoping to end up with something more traditional. I’ve always admired Shamrocks (we have a Shamrock Pilothouse here in the marina), but I’d rather not start with an inboard-powered hull. If we wanted a fast, sporty boat, the Shamrock would be a great choice. - Marty
Understood. We had an American Tug 362 next to us at haulout last year. Got me to thinking...but way too much money (and not trailerable by personal vehicles).
A conversion feature to consider is the ability to open up space on the back deck. Many of the catboats have removable wooden seats in the cockpit rather than molded seats.
Dan - Thanks for the link to that listing. The boat has just the right amount of weathering (lower price), so it’s a good example of what I’d be considering…although it would be a huge advantage to find one on the West Coast, like the one I restored for a customer.
How about a classic Thunderbird sailboat? Most of them have plywood hulls, decks, and cabins, so modification should be easy. They all feature an outboard well. The hard chines and "pentagon" transom might be a non-starter for you.
T-Birds are 26’ long with a sharply raked stem and—as you said—transom design that’s a non-starter. (Don’t know what they weigh, but I’m guessing that following addition of a cuddy and pilothouse they might exceed our 3,000 lb towing limit.) But thanks for the suggestion! - Marty
How about a classic Thunderbird sailboat? Most of them have plywood hulls, decks, and cabins, so modification should be easy. They all feature an outboard well. The hard chines and "pentagon" transom might be a non-starter for you.
While skimming through boats for sale in the local area (a bad habit since I’m in no need of another boat :), I noticed this ComPac 19:
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/634186338923469/?ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post
It’s certainly cheap, but maybe a bit too far gone?
I know it’s not in Marty’s area, but curious about his thoughts on the condition for the project he has in mind.
John - For the kind of project I’ve been envisioning, the $600 Com-Pac would be ideal. I’d probably be removing/replacing the entire deck/cabin mold on that particular model anyway, so how bad could the bare hull be…?? Maybe the worst thing about old sailboats, when it comes to restoration challenges, is when they have foam-sandwich or balsa-cored decks or cabintops that have rotted from water intrusion. So, if the whole kaboodle is going to the dump anyway, I suspect the bare hull would be okay.
What about the Freedom 21? I think this boat would look great with a pilothouse and it's beam is a little wider than "normal".
Scott - The Freedom 21 is great as a sailboat, but my sense is that the hull has less freeboard (so probably less interior volume to play with) than, say, the Columbia 22. I’ll take a closer look, though…and thanks. - Marty
Had forgotten about that boat—always liked them. Good suggestion. And who doesn't love this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mx7bMnQgRoY
The sail has a big roach up high which may be the primary reason for the heel under sail, not so much the hull design.
Com-Pac. The Sailboat Company in NC did some nice looking trawler conversions using Com-Pacs. I think they even sold glass cabin tops to fit. And I seem to recall one conversion that started with an O'Day, maybe a Mariner. Here's a link to Com-Pac conversion similar to what I remember SC was doing, but it's a bit smaller than what you're after...http://motorcityboatwerks.weebly.com/compac-16-pilothouse.html
Jerry - What a terrific pilothouse add-on for the little Com-Pac 16…nicely done, and thanks for the link. - Marty
Hi Marty, I just noticed that he has a YouTube video of the boat, too. And lots of other interesting YT content...Will need to spend some more time checking it out.
The catboat has far more interior volume and cockpit space. Find one on the East coast and bring it home.
A little while ago I read an article on a couple who transformed their sailboat into a power boat. I looked all over but couldn't find it again. Good Old Boat? Small Boat Nation? Sail? SCA? Anyway, they made their modifications so they can be removed and the boat returned to original if/when they want to go sailing. Frustration is at max; where did I read that? It was a week or so ago. Aargh! Did anyone else see that article?
A couple of years ago I saw a conversion project like these that from a distance I mistook it as a devlin Dipper. The owner claimed he had removed the level from a cal 20 and built his cabin / wheel house on that boat. The resulting house wasn't very large as I remember and the boat looked nothing like a cal 20, but it seemed to work to a degree.
How about a Montgomery 17? It's smaller than your criteria but without the sailing bits is really a big little boat. The lapstrake hull is strong, functional, and salty looking. It would lend itself well to a raised cabin design. According to the SCA M17 article, no hull failures have ever been noted, very important for a good foundation.
Forget a heavy 9.9hp engine that you can’t lift, a five or six hp will do the same thing at a lower weight. it will be even more fuel efficient, and less expensive to purchase.
A fixed shallow keel model will allow you to get into skinny waters. It’s a boat that could be easier trailered, with no sailing bits to set up, launching should be a snap. You could really expand your boating geography.
Last night my wife and I grabbed Mexican to go and ate it on our M17. Carolyn says it’s one of the most comfortable cockpits we have ever had, even better than the SeaRay 26ft sport cruiser we had. She admits however that the dog got the best seat on the SeaRay. We brainstormed what the boat would be without the sailing rig, and tiller. Put up some canvas and a bimini in the cockpit and it would be a very capable trawler so to speak, without even adding a wheelhouse. A large little powerboat with a clear deck free of mast and standing rigging. No tiller handle impediment. A BBQ on the transom. We live in the tropics, so a cabin is HOT. Regardless, I would live with the boat in a powerboat configuration before making the wheelhouse conversion, find out what works, what doesn't, this would help with the planning of the wheelhouse change.
Rob - Semi-derelict M-17s are hard to find and because they’re such great sailboats I’d find it painful to cut into a nice one…but you’re right in saying the Montgomery hull would make a terrific foundation for our project. Thanks for the idea!
Over the past couple of years I've seen a few of the smaller MacGregor 19 powersailers looking for a new home. The last one was down in St. Michaels, MD, sans rig, had a recent-vintage Honda, and a wheel for steering...and was selling cheap. The obvious downside...not very traditional-looking. But would make a dandy mini-trawler that's super easy to trailer and launch with it's water ballast. And could get out of its own way if necessary.
Build a Welsford Pilgrim hull. Add a pilot house/cabin (slightly forward of present cabin ), delete the bowsprit and centreboard and modify the stem shape slightly to suit. Classic look, lightweight for towing, custom interior!
Earl - I’ve admired the Pilgrim hull design, but heck, why not go for broke and build a Penguin, adding a pilothouse?
The centreboard trunk would spoil your pilothouse. - Earl-
Once upon a time I had a Venture 24, I always thought if I were to trim the deck house off flush with the deck and build a fore cabin with a longer pilot house. The centerboard trunk in the cabin would meet the Fein Mulitsaw. The bottom of the hull is basically flat. The outboard would be enclosed in a box, retaining the outboard rudder.
Thanks—that’s another possible candidate, although assuming the 24 is one of Macgregor’s planing hulls, we obviously wouldn’t need a big outboard. - Marty
The Venture 24 is an earlier displacement sailboat. Clipper bow is likely not the look you want.
I selected the Columbia, however the catboats would have much greater appeal without their ugly barn door rudders.
Earl - The barn-door rudder would be replaced by a far smaller rudder, and the motorboat would have wheel steering in the pilothouse, vs. tiller. - Marty
What you want is a Davidson Chugger, the 22ft version, if you can find one.
Kevin - My impression is that they were all inboards and double-enders. From what I know about the Chuggers, I’d want to totally replace their cabins and add an enclosed pilothouse…and also deal with removal of the inboard and its running gear. One owner says his round-bottomed Chugger rolls like crazy, so there’s that, too…but the idea of something like a lifeboat hull—which the Chuggers resemble—might be a possibility. Thanks for the recommendation. - Marty
Marty, I had the opportunity to use a Chugger for several years in Prince Rupert, owned by a doctor with zero mechanical skills, I did the maintenance and improvements. They do roll like a pig but when fitted with paravanes they have a comfortable ride, at least we thought so. Did several multiday trips out of Prince Rupert with the family, wife and I one small child a dog and a cat, It was perfect for us. In fact I'm looking at building a similar vessel, see my article in SCA, but with an outboard in a well and possibly a small lugsail for downwind travel. At 75 I've not much time left. The other option is a 22ft sailing canoe, also my design, for single handing overnight trips.
Did a quick search on YachtWorld => https://www.yachtworld.com/boats-for-sale/condition-used/type-power/class-power-cuddy/length-18,24/price-0,15000/year-,2025/
This one looks right up your design criteria with no mods, $9K, but might be on edge of trailerable.
https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/1978-shamrock-200-cuddy-8989594/
This one has more of a cabin, outboard, and trailer
https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/1992-pro--line-24-cuddy-cabin-9101779/
Brad - Thanks for the links, but we’re hoping to end up with something more traditional. I’ve always admired Shamrocks (we have a Shamrock Pilothouse here in the marina), but I’d rather not start with an inboard-powered hull. If we wanted a fast, sporty boat, the Shamrock would be a great choice. - Marty
Understood. We had an American Tug 362 next to us at haulout last year. Got me to thinking...but way too much money (and not trailerable by personal vehicles).
A conversion feature to consider is the ability to open up space on the back deck. Many of the catboats have removable wooden seats in the cockpit rather than molded seats.
https://boston.craigslist.org/sob/boa/d/wareham-herreshoff-america-catboat/7669829984.html
Dan - Thanks for the link to that listing. The boat has just the right amount of weathering (lower price), so it’s a good example of what I’d be considering…although it would be a huge advantage to find one on the West Coast, like the one I restored for a customer.
How about a classic Thunderbird sailboat? Most of them have plywood hulls, decks, and cabins, so modification should be easy. They all feature an outboard well. The hard chines and "pentagon" transom might be a non-starter for you.
T-Birds are 26’ long with a sharply raked stem and—as you said—transom design that’s a non-starter. (Don’t know what they weigh, but I’m guessing that following addition of a cuddy and pilothouse they might exceed our 3,000 lb towing limit.) But thanks for the suggestion! - Marty
How about a classic Thunderbird sailboat? Most of them have plywood hulls, decks, and cabins, so modification should be easy. They all feature an outboard well. The hard chines and "pentagon" transom might be a non-starter for you.