There is also the point that the boats ability to carry sail upwind is a factor of the rigs leverage x the wind pressure, and that is governed by the boats stability, (which includes the crew weight wherever it is positioned). A low aspect ratio rig has less leverage for a given wind pressure and sail area, so a boat, otherwise the same as the high aspect ratio will carry more sail so the amount of drive can be less different than some would think.
In nasty, sloppy conditions a small craft needs to bear away a little to get power and speed to counter those conditions, and thats where the low aspect ratio rig really shines, more drive, less heeling moment, and more progress.
There are a whole lot more issues as well, but I'd point out that pointing angle upwind is not as big a deal as you'd think, in classes or types where sail area is not limited, the gaff rig with lightweight spars and modern sail cloth can be very competitive upwind and down. Just ask some of the people who've raced against a really good gaffer with a skilled crew.
What a great article, thanks so much! It's fun to think about in a northern Michigan winter.
An additional factor is ease of launching and retrieving. Bermuda rigs requires stays and a long mast, both of which are hassles at the boat launch. If you have a boat with no standing rigging and a shorter mast , it is faster to rig and, just as important in my opinion, gives you the option of launching at the ramp and rigging on the beach (or event he water), which gets you out of the launch line and parking lot. So, while I admire gaff and gunter rigs I'm not sure I would have one on a trailer-sailor (note I do way more day sailing than multi-day sailing).
Howard, this is a great pitch for varied sail shapes and rig designs, particular to sailing conditions and sailor needs. I'm struck by how few sailors have any experience with anything but a Marconi rigged sloop (not a surprise, given the dominance among production boats of course). Add to that the fact that in the states, we often see other sail types poorly set. I volunteer at a sailing club where beginners get to sail Sunfish lateens with bagged out sails and no tension adjustments. The youngest start in wooden home-built Optimists with sprit sails that are invariably poorly set up. So the rare US sailor who has experience with such a boat, or passes one on the water, is not comparing apples and apples. One of several boats I sail -- a Michalak designed balence lug pram -- is not fast, but its quick to rig, easy to reef, and cheap to repair. Downwind it is fast, not only because of the four sided sail but because the unstayed mast allows one to sail on a run with full sail area perpendicular to the breeze (i.e. no spinnaker needed). An added point that always amuses me is how non-racing sailors begin to talk about performance yet one sees them with loose (or no) boom vang, slack shrouds or untuned mast rake, jib with poor sheeting angle etc. Sure your "high aspect" sail and folks have lots of potential up wind, but not when your main is twisting off 20 degrees and you've got major weather helm because the sail plan isn't balanced etc. You wisely approach this question from the practical needs of the small boat cruiser. A recent SCA post on boats for geezers is also relevant. So many who reach a point where they aren't physically confident rigging and launching a heavy aluminum mast might benefit from other rigs. And then there's the exploration / curiosity quotient. During a brief dalliance with PDR home building, I really enjoyed exploring how differ sail rigs on the same boat changed things -- learned a lot, via experience, that had only half stuck in theory by reading Bolger, Michalak, and others. So I haven't yet experienced a 100 Small Boat Rigs as Bolger's book names them, but the list so far -- Marconi sloop, leg o'mutton, balanced lug, sprit, lateen (sunfish), sleeved and loose footed windsurfer high-aspect. I'd love to experience a true, Mediterranean latin sail (which has a two-part spar and which was/is sometimes flown horizontal on the downwind), and a nicely cut battened junk rig.
(Note: according to Bolger, image four is not a Standing Lug but a Balanced Lug, just like image 6. The difference in these two images is that the first is boomless. But according to Bolger, a Standing Lug can be boomed, boomless, sprit boomed etc. The important difference is that the tack of the standing sail is attached at the mast; the tack of the Balanced sail is forward of the mast. I think it's an important difference for lug sailors because in the latter example, a very tight downhaul with boom, and the tension on the luff of the square sail, all keep the boom from lifting. For upwind performance, that gives better sail shape control. Assuming you've got no traveler or boom vang, the downhaul becomes a really powerful control.)
thanks for the article. I'm probably among a pretty small subset of sailors--those of us who came to sailing, self-taught, through traditional rigs (spritsails and lugsails). No round-the-buoys racing background at all, and very little time with Marconi rigs. So, it's very interesting to me to think about how the vast majority of sailors, especially those who sail production boats, are probably familiar only (or mostly) with Marconi rigs.
As you say, for the purpose of long-distance cruising in very small open or semi-open boats, the traditional rigs offer lots and lots of advantages. Unstayed rigs mean you can transition quickly between rowing and sailing, in addition to launching more quickly. Lugsails in particular are quite simple to reef on the water, another crucial safety measure. And when it gets to be time when being out there under sail is no longer a good option, an unstayed rig lets you drop the rig entirely and deploy the oars to handle some weather that would otherwise put you at risk of capsizing.
I started my sail career in a canoe rigged with a lateen sail, moved to a gunter rig and thence to a gaff rig on a wooden lap strake cat boat. We knew nothing of reef points when ordering a new sail for the cat boat. On our small lake this was not much of a problem.
Later, when following a Marshall Sanderling down to Monterey I was amazed at how fast the gaff rigged boat was. That is, until the wind piped up and he was forced to reef. My Monty17 was able to handle the wind increase and I soon passed him and left him astern.
Recently I have been enamored with the Goat Island Skiff, as portrayed by the Video Rambler on YouTube. The simplicity of the low aspect, low tech rig really appeals to me. Fewer costly boat bits to pay dearly for. Why buy fittings when a piece of line, passed thru a hole and knotted will suffice?
Just a thought -- I'm thinking the Wharram wing-sail or the sleeved type on a Nonsuch type boat I think offers a cleaner air-flow ?!! And an advantage is that this type doesn't usually have any or at least not as many stays or at least maybe a headstay depending on the hight of the mast. Then if it's a tall mast maybe a side stay is needed . Just a thought ??!!
One late thought here. Small boat designers should give some attention or thought to multiple rigs on a boat. I don't mean "you can order a gaff yawl or standing lug for this hull shape." What I mean is a design that lets the sailor choose different rigs on different days.
For instance, Vivier's Minahouet can be rigged either as a standing lug or a lug sloop (with a jib). Both are unstayed. As I understand it, the standing lug can be used for solo sailing, with a mast step more forward. The lug sloop has a mast step more aft, and a short bowsprit is added to rig the jib.
With every small boat the owner is making compromises. A boat with multiple rig options would allow more uses the boat. A simple standing lug or sprit when you want to quickly rig, or the forecast is light winds and you want to be able to strike the rig and row. Or a full gaff with standing rigging if you have a full crew and want to go to windward, or perhaps are going out for more than a few hours. If you are storing a boat, extra rigging for the same boat is not that much more storage.
I really appreciate the drawings of the various sail configurations. I've sailed a lot over fifty years and never could remember those types of sails. Mea culpa but now I'm old(er) and CRS anyway. But I digress.
I admire all that thoughts and science gone into in the article and subsequent comments but remain a marconi sailor for the comfortable ease of handling and efficiency and no heavy spars hanging near the tops of the low slung masts. Call me old, or is that new, fashioned or maybe it's too late to change now.
What he said!!! I have loved my old lateen Scow, 2 lateen Sunfish, a Sabot, a lateen Snark, a Gunter SF Pelican, a lateen Potter 15, a ComPac 14 gaff Picnic Cat, and finally my current favorite balanced lug rig SCAMP #6 B.Frank…As Howard suggests….looking good/ and keeping it simple!!!
I once owned a 14' sprit sail/ jib Whitehall (From John Gardener's Building Classic Small Craft). After coming from Bermuda rigged day sailers I was amazed at how long I could carry sail with less heel and how well the boat performed both on and off the wind. Though it was fitted with a mast step for using the main alone, I almost always carried the jib.
Rusty, I'm interested in your experience with the balanced lug. I have had the experience of driving the bow down excessively in high wind with a lug sail. Hull form has something to do with this too I suppose. I sail an 11 foot pram with a 90 sq ft sail (and two sets of reef points, which I use with some regularity). I've had similar, actually more dramatic experiences, sailing downwind on a Sunfish with lateen sail when over-powered. For me, the balanced lug also has the advantage of allowing me to easily shift the attachment points of boom and spar -- effectively moving the sail center of effort fore or aft. I can't do that with my racing sloop or keelboat! Compared to the Sunfish, where one can't reef or move the sail -- the lug felt like it gave me more options!
If you are going to tip a boat with a balanced lugsail over, it will most likely be when you're running downwind in a breeze. That does apply to most rigs, so when sailing in a boat with an unstayed rig, make sure you don't let the sail out beyond about 70 or 80 deg from the centreline, that applies to the yard or gaff not the boom which will be closer in. If out too far the thrust vector of the sail is across the boat to windward and she'll roll that way if you're not careful, and thats not what you'll be expecting so you'll tip over backwards.
So when running off in a stiff wind, reef her, reef her early.
Note, watch the videos of Lasers sailing in high wind, its downwind that they fall over, not upwind so this isnt unique to lugsails and gaffers.
Safety is foremost in my mind too. I try to recognize all of the situations where safety becomes a real moment by moment issue. Here are two where some most low aspect rigs have it over the Bermudan/Marconi in my experience. 1. Down wind/down wave in a sudden bad weather build, ie gusty conditions where coming up to execute a heave to is a dicey move and in general where the boom is hitting a shroud and riding up it creating more draft in the main precisely when less draft is needed. A broach for many, particularly less experienced sailors may be imminent in these conditions.
2. The second safety concern is in the event of a capsize (since many readers sail dinghies where a capsize is a possibility) a stayed rig means there is an additional difficult move that is likely needed in windy conditions, which is likely when a capsize will happen. This is the need to swim the bow to weather pointing it into the wind before attempting to re-board. This is more difficult than one might imagine. If the sails are still up and likely they will be then the boat will possibly fall off on either tack, sails flogging or filling. If the boom hits a shroud the boat may gybe and over it goes again. Or as the sailor applies his/her body weight to one side of the boat the hull shape becomes asymmetrical for a moment causing it to gybe and this tendency is exacerbated by the sails, boom possibly hitting a shroud, etc.
Some of the rigs I have included in the low aspect range are unstayed, which in my mind is a huge advantage from a safety perspective over the stayed Bermudan/Marconi.
In closing some might cite a boat I built (the yawl rigged SCAMP) as having stays/shrouds. However, it is actually an unstayed rig until I wish to employ the shrouds, which only serve to add headstay tension as the boat has no back stay. I call them "Running Shrouds" for lack of a better term because they are not running back stays or fixed in place but they are in a normal shroud location. When released each snaps to a stowed position at the mast via two bungee cords. I can sail unstayed on any point of sail but the upwind gene in me goes for maximum pointing ability particularly should I need to claw off a lee shore or when there is another boat nearby:-)
I have rigged each running shroud to be adjustable via two small handle integrated winches so I can optimize head stay tension as needed up wind. The boat can be sailed without the shrouds, which I typically do off wind so as to avoid what I have mentioned above, the danger of a broach due to the boom hitting and riding up a shroud in windy down wind conditions.
Glad you have found your rig of choice and are comfortable with it, that is all that counts.
Rusty I am a M15 fan too as you know. But my complaint safety wise with the M15 was really 2 issues. First, without the backstay when the wind picked up the jib was too much and each tack beating to windward would cause bagging of the jib and excess healing. Very unpleasant. I suspect the M17 would do better in this regard, because the backstay would prevent the release of the forestay pressure mitigating this to some degree. So that is where I considered a furling jib for the M15, but never did it as I sold it when I completed my SCAMP. The second issue was the inability to easily change the head sail safely under changeable conditions. The M15 will not point without a jib, so just dousing the jib with a jib downhaul did not work for me.
Now, my SCAMP on the other hand is very easy to reef under sail. I have had to practice it, but I have found for me with my Tiller Clutch that parking the boat is easy to do, and I drop the main into the lazy jacks, reef, and hoist. With 3 reef points it is like carrying 4 sails with you at all times. I find the boat more stable to windward under similar conditions where I sail than I did the M15 despite being smaller and lighter. Truly a remarkable design. I have come to appreciate the amazing flexibility of the lug rig. Finally, downwind I am not worried about a broach as long as I keep the boom around 70-80 degrees. The issue is the sail twist up high. That is where the death roll can occur. The pram bow will not dig in, so no worries there, but one could certainly capsize with a death roll. I am very aware of the sail angle so I feel totally safe there, but one could tie a preventer knot to keep the boom from going any farther than needed for that very issue.
There is also the point that the boats ability to carry sail upwind is a factor of the rigs leverage x the wind pressure, and that is governed by the boats stability, (which includes the crew weight wherever it is positioned). A low aspect ratio rig has less leverage for a given wind pressure and sail area, so a boat, otherwise the same as the high aspect ratio will carry more sail so the amount of drive can be less different than some would think.
In nasty, sloppy conditions a small craft needs to bear away a little to get power and speed to counter those conditions, and thats where the low aspect ratio rig really shines, more drive, less heeling moment, and more progress.
There are a whole lot more issues as well, but I'd point out that pointing angle upwind is not as big a deal as you'd think, in classes or types where sail area is not limited, the gaff rig with lightweight spars and modern sail cloth can be very competitive upwind and down. Just ask some of the people who've raced against a really good gaffer with a skilled crew.
Howard, well thought and well said!
What a great article, thanks so much! It's fun to think about in a northern Michigan winter.
An additional factor is ease of launching and retrieving. Bermuda rigs requires stays and a long mast, both of which are hassles at the boat launch. If you have a boat with no standing rigging and a shorter mast , it is faster to rig and, just as important in my opinion, gives you the option of launching at the ramp and rigging on the beach (or event he water), which gets you out of the launch line and parking lot. So, while I admire gaff and gunter rigs I'm not sure I would have one on a trailer-sailor (note I do way more day sailing than multi-day sailing).
Great to see informational articles in your new electronic world.
Howard, this is a great pitch for varied sail shapes and rig designs, particular to sailing conditions and sailor needs. I'm struck by how few sailors have any experience with anything but a Marconi rigged sloop (not a surprise, given the dominance among production boats of course). Add to that the fact that in the states, we often see other sail types poorly set. I volunteer at a sailing club where beginners get to sail Sunfish lateens with bagged out sails and no tension adjustments. The youngest start in wooden home-built Optimists with sprit sails that are invariably poorly set up. So the rare US sailor who has experience with such a boat, or passes one on the water, is not comparing apples and apples. One of several boats I sail -- a Michalak designed balence lug pram -- is not fast, but its quick to rig, easy to reef, and cheap to repair. Downwind it is fast, not only because of the four sided sail but because the unstayed mast allows one to sail on a run with full sail area perpendicular to the breeze (i.e. no spinnaker needed). An added point that always amuses me is how non-racing sailors begin to talk about performance yet one sees them with loose (or no) boom vang, slack shrouds or untuned mast rake, jib with poor sheeting angle etc. Sure your "high aspect" sail and folks have lots of potential up wind, but not when your main is twisting off 20 degrees and you've got major weather helm because the sail plan isn't balanced etc. You wisely approach this question from the practical needs of the small boat cruiser. A recent SCA post on boats for geezers is also relevant. So many who reach a point where they aren't physically confident rigging and launching a heavy aluminum mast might benefit from other rigs. And then there's the exploration / curiosity quotient. During a brief dalliance with PDR home building, I really enjoyed exploring how differ sail rigs on the same boat changed things -- learned a lot, via experience, that had only half stuck in theory by reading Bolger, Michalak, and others. So I haven't yet experienced a 100 Small Boat Rigs as Bolger's book names them, but the list so far -- Marconi sloop, leg o'mutton, balanced lug, sprit, lateen (sunfish), sleeved and loose footed windsurfer high-aspect. I'd love to experience a true, Mediterranean latin sail (which has a two-part spar and which was/is sometimes flown horizontal on the downwind), and a nicely cut battened junk rig.
(Note: according to Bolger, image four is not a Standing Lug but a Balanced Lug, just like image 6. The difference in these two images is that the first is boomless. But according to Bolger, a Standing Lug can be boomed, boomless, sprit boomed etc. The important difference is that the tack of the standing sail is attached at the mast; the tack of the Balanced sail is forward of the mast. I think it's an important difference for lug sailors because in the latter example, a very tight downhaul with boom, and the tension on the luff of the square sail, all keep the boom from lifting. For upwind performance, that gives better sail shape control. Assuming you've got no traveler or boom vang, the downhaul becomes a really powerful control.)
Howard,
thanks for the article. I'm probably among a pretty small subset of sailors--those of us who came to sailing, self-taught, through traditional rigs (spritsails and lugsails). No round-the-buoys racing background at all, and very little time with Marconi rigs. So, it's very interesting to me to think about how the vast majority of sailors, especially those who sail production boats, are probably familiar only (or mostly) with Marconi rigs.
As you say, for the purpose of long-distance cruising in very small open or semi-open boats, the traditional rigs offer lots and lots of advantages. Unstayed rigs mean you can transition quickly between rowing and sailing, in addition to launching more quickly. Lugsails in particular are quite simple to reef on the water, another crucial safety measure. And when it gets to be time when being out there under sail is no longer a good option, an unstayed rig lets you drop the rig entirely and deploy the oars to handle some weather that would otherwise put you at risk of capsizing.
Thanks for the informed perspective!
Tom
I started my sail career in a canoe rigged with a lateen sail, moved to a gunter rig and thence to a gaff rig on a wooden lap strake cat boat. We knew nothing of reef points when ordering a new sail for the cat boat. On our small lake this was not much of a problem.
Later, when following a Marshall Sanderling down to Monterey I was amazed at how fast the gaff rigged boat was. That is, until the wind piped up and he was forced to reef. My Monty17 was able to handle the wind increase and I soon passed him and left him astern.
Recently I have been enamored with the Goat Island Skiff, as portrayed by the Video Rambler on YouTube. The simplicity of the low aspect, low tech rig really appeals to me. Fewer costly boat bits to pay dearly for. Why buy fittings when a piece of line, passed thru a hole and knotted will suffice?
Just a thought -- I'm thinking the Wharram wing-sail or the sleeved type on a Nonsuch type boat I think offers a cleaner air-flow ?!! And an advantage is that this type doesn't usually have any or at least not as many stays or at least maybe a headstay depending on the hight of the mast. Then if it's a tall mast maybe a side stay is needed . Just a thought ??!!
One late thought here. Small boat designers should give some attention or thought to multiple rigs on a boat. I don't mean "you can order a gaff yawl or standing lug for this hull shape." What I mean is a design that lets the sailor choose different rigs on different days.
For instance, Vivier's Minahouet can be rigged either as a standing lug or a lug sloop (with a jib). Both are unstayed. As I understand it, the standing lug can be used for solo sailing, with a mast step more forward. The lug sloop has a mast step more aft, and a short bowsprit is added to rig the jib.
With every small boat the owner is making compromises. A boat with multiple rig options would allow more uses the boat. A simple standing lug or sprit when you want to quickly rig, or the forecast is light winds and you want to be able to strike the rig and row. Or a full gaff with standing rigging if you have a full crew and want to go to windward, or perhaps are going out for more than a few hours. If you are storing a boat, extra rigging for the same boat is not that much more storage.
First of all, what the heck is a substack?
I really appreciate the drawings of the various sail configurations. I've sailed a lot over fifty years and never could remember those types of sails. Mea culpa but now I'm old(er) and CRS anyway. But I digress.
I admire all that thoughts and science gone into in the article and subsequent comments but remain a marconi sailor for the comfortable ease of handling and efficiency and no heavy spars hanging near the tops of the low slung masts. Call me old, or is that new, fashioned or maybe it's too late to change now.
What he said!!! I have loved my old lateen Scow, 2 lateen Sunfish, a Sabot, a lateen Snark, a Gunter SF Pelican, a lateen Potter 15, a ComPac 14 gaff Picnic Cat, and finally my current favorite balanced lug rig SCAMP #6 B.Frank…As Howard suggests….looking good/ and keeping it simple!!!
Just sayin Hi Dan!!!
Sure would be good to see you some time.
I once owned a 14' sprit sail/ jib Whitehall (From John Gardener's Building Classic Small Craft). After coming from Bermuda rigged day sailers I was amazed at how long I could carry sail with less heel and how well the boat performed both on and off the wind. Though it was fitted with a mast step for using the main alone, I almost always carried the jib.
Rusty, I'm interested in your experience with the balanced lug. I have had the experience of driving the bow down excessively in high wind with a lug sail. Hull form has something to do with this too I suppose. I sail an 11 foot pram with a 90 sq ft sail (and two sets of reef points, which I use with some regularity). I've had similar, actually more dramatic experiences, sailing downwind on a Sunfish with lateen sail when over-powered. For me, the balanced lug also has the advantage of allowing me to easily shift the attachment points of boom and spar -- effectively moving the sail center of effort fore or aft. I can't do that with my racing sloop or keelboat! Compared to the Sunfish, where one can't reef or move the sail -- the lug felt like it gave me more options!
If you are going to tip a boat with a balanced lugsail over, it will most likely be when you're running downwind in a breeze. That does apply to most rigs, so when sailing in a boat with an unstayed rig, make sure you don't let the sail out beyond about 70 or 80 deg from the centreline, that applies to the yard or gaff not the boom which will be closer in. If out too far the thrust vector of the sail is across the boat to windward and she'll roll that way if you're not careful, and thats not what you'll be expecting so you'll tip over backwards.
So when running off in a stiff wind, reef her, reef her early.
Note, watch the videos of Lasers sailing in high wind, its downwind that they fall over, not upwind so this isnt unique to lugsails and gaffers.
Hey Rusty
Safety is foremost in my mind too. I try to recognize all of the situations where safety becomes a real moment by moment issue. Here are two where some most low aspect rigs have it over the Bermudan/Marconi in my experience. 1. Down wind/down wave in a sudden bad weather build, ie gusty conditions where coming up to execute a heave to is a dicey move and in general where the boom is hitting a shroud and riding up it creating more draft in the main precisely when less draft is needed. A broach for many, particularly less experienced sailors may be imminent in these conditions.
2. The second safety concern is in the event of a capsize (since many readers sail dinghies where a capsize is a possibility) a stayed rig means there is an additional difficult move that is likely needed in windy conditions, which is likely when a capsize will happen. This is the need to swim the bow to weather pointing it into the wind before attempting to re-board. This is more difficult than one might imagine. If the sails are still up and likely they will be then the boat will possibly fall off on either tack, sails flogging or filling. If the boom hits a shroud the boat may gybe and over it goes again. Or as the sailor applies his/her body weight to one side of the boat the hull shape becomes asymmetrical for a moment causing it to gybe and this tendency is exacerbated by the sails, boom possibly hitting a shroud, etc.
Some of the rigs I have included in the low aspect range are unstayed, which in my mind is a huge advantage from a safety perspective over the stayed Bermudan/Marconi.
In closing some might cite a boat I built (the yawl rigged SCAMP) as having stays/shrouds. However, it is actually an unstayed rig until I wish to employ the shrouds, which only serve to add headstay tension as the boat has no back stay. I call them "Running Shrouds" for lack of a better term because they are not running back stays or fixed in place but they are in a normal shroud location. When released each snaps to a stowed position at the mast via two bungee cords. I can sail unstayed on any point of sail but the upwind gene in me goes for maximum pointing ability particularly should I need to claw off a lee shore or when there is another boat nearby:-)
I have rigged each running shroud to be adjustable via two small handle integrated winches so I can optimize head stay tension as needed up wind. The boat can be sailed without the shrouds, which I typically do off wind so as to avoid what I have mentioned above, the danger of a broach due to the boom hitting and riding up a shroud in windy down wind conditions.
Glad you have found your rig of choice and are comfortable with it, that is all that counts.
Yo Rusty.
I am all in on the avoiding bad weather bit. Smart.
Curious, what sort of "self righting" dinghy are you referring to? Always eager to learn.
Respect to you and of course Happy New Year...................looks to be a good one:-)
Rusty I am a M15 fan too as you know. But my complaint safety wise with the M15 was really 2 issues. First, without the backstay when the wind picked up the jib was too much and each tack beating to windward would cause bagging of the jib and excess healing. Very unpleasant. I suspect the M17 would do better in this regard, because the backstay would prevent the release of the forestay pressure mitigating this to some degree. So that is where I considered a furling jib for the M15, but never did it as I sold it when I completed my SCAMP. The second issue was the inability to easily change the head sail safely under changeable conditions. The M15 will not point without a jib, so just dousing the jib with a jib downhaul did not work for me.
Now, my SCAMP on the other hand is very easy to reef under sail. I have had to practice it, but I have found for me with my Tiller Clutch that parking the boat is easy to do, and I drop the main into the lazy jacks, reef, and hoist. With 3 reef points it is like carrying 4 sails with you at all times. I find the boat more stable to windward under similar conditions where I sail than I did the M15 despite being smaller and lighter. Truly a remarkable design. I have come to appreciate the amazing flexibility of the lug rig. Finally, downwind I am not worried about a broach as long as I keep the boom around 70-80 degrees. The issue is the sail twist up high. That is where the death roll can occur. The pram bow will not dig in, so no worries there, but one could certainly capsize with a death roll. I am very aware of the sail angle so I feel totally safe there, but one could tie a preventer knot to keep the boom from going any farther than needed for that very issue.