Having been out in force 7 & much greater in much more substantial boats than these, the correct answer is ALL! If you have really sailed in force 7 you would know it is the sea conditions/wave height that are the issue. None of these boats are suitable for those kind of conditions.
It's nearly winter, sailing season is over, I'm fighting a cold, and I'm a Grumpy Old Man On The Internet. With that caveat out of the way: What the heck? Who's "tapping out" first? The answer is: Me! I'm tapping out first. On *any* of those boats, including my own Marshall Sanderling 18. I'm heading back to the ramp or the closest available shelter in fricken' F7 conditions.
Of all these, the boat that's gonna "get in trouble" first is the one with the least experienced skipper and crew.
37% so far think the Mac gets in trouble first! Balderdash. There continues to be an irrational bias against MacGregors among SCA readers (and editors). Consider: this model has 1) the self-righting stability of water ballast, plus 2) a broad beam with a wide, flat run aft, thus superior initial form stability; 3) a minimum 25 hp, but probably 50 hp outboard, so it could power through the wind and waves and get to shelter safely at speed; 4) positive foam flotation - its unsinkable; 5) not only a self bailing cockpit, but a partially open transom to maximize drainage if pooped; 6) if engine failed to start, it can still sail fast to shelter under reefed main and rolled up headsail - it’s much faster than any of the other boats; 7) if in danger of going aground, or having to deal with beam seas, centerboard can be partially retracted to reduce draft and minimize “tripping” over its keel as it yields to the seas; 8) the redundancy of twin rudders; 9) a large, comfortable cabin so crew can get out of the weather, make hot beverages, etc. 10) If shelter is not an option, it could heave to or power slowly into or at an angle to waves to minimize rolling and danger of capsize while waiting out the blow. At 26 feet, this a big, fast, safe comfortable boat. I’d rather take my chances in this Mac than any of the other boats. It may not be traditional or romantic or a “classic”, but it’s a safe, sea-worthy craft. I bet it scores higher than any of the others on John Vigor’s seaworthy scale. Ever had one blow by you in a good breeze under full main and Genoa? It’s much faster than a Catalina 22. This is a very capable boat.
I agree! 1,400 pounds of water ballast is a feature, not a bug. And with 70 or 80 hp on the transom (pictures shows a 26M or X), the skipper will blow the ballast and be sitting at the marina's warm bar while the gale blows. No marina? Run it up on the beach like any other centerboard boat. No beach? Heave to and stay warm and dry. And MacGregors are NOT flimsy boats -- I've got one. I've sailed a Siren 17. It's a good, solid boat, but it will be the first to run into trouble.
Thanks, Jerry, I have enjoyed and learned a great deal from your articles and have great respect for your opinion. Now if that Mac only looked like a Friendship sloop, or a Marshall cat! Sigh…
Good point, John. But I can (sorta) get used to it -- it's big enough for comfort, but light enough to trailer to distant waters...at least, that's the dream.
I have owned or sailed a MacGregor, a Potter, a Catalina. Not familiar with a Siren 17, and have concerns on an open boat. Now all that said, a good confident sailor will should not have problems with any of this group if a well founded boat. The Lugger got my vote because what gets in takes some efforts to get out!
Everyone loves to hate the MacGregor, but it is nonetheless a big, watertight box. Batten down the hatches and ride it out! I would be most concerned about the Siren, given its size and just not the type for this job.
Keep in mind Webb Chiles sailed a Drascombe Lugger from San Diego to the South Pacific before being pitchpoled. I believe he kept going after that but I am not sure if it was the same boat.
My very first sailboat, 42 yrs ago, was a siren. While I still love what a simply and easily set up boat they are, I certainly wouldn’t want to be out in a gale…
Mind you, the cockpit is self bailing… a bonus compared to the Lugger
The ability of the sailor has more to do with it than the boat in my eye. I chose the Siren because it is the smallest boat of the group. My thought is that this boat may have been sailed by the least experienced because of be out in this weather. The Drascombe is an open boat, but a beginning sailor probably would not in my estimation be sailing that boat. I would love to have a Drascombe, another reason for not picking it. The Catalina would come out on top and the McGregor and Potter somewhere in the middle. These are all my thoughts and I have been wrought many times, just ask my wife.
NOT a fan of M26…I have witnessed them in Squall Conditions with a Sea State…it was ugly! Very “Unstable”….at least in the hands of the Skippers I observed!!
Pitting these weight ballasted and one open boat against that big Mac is not fair and shows a lack of knowledge and understanding of what Roger MacGregor put into his water ballasted boats. I’ve ridden out bigger wind and water than Force 7 in my 26X and I was still having fun!
Normally I’d say the open boat because shipping water in climbing seas could be a big problem. But the MacGregor gets my vote because it is really a flat-bottomed power boat poorly designed for sail.
This is a tough one. My first thought was that the open boat should go out first but in capable hands, the Lugger could do fine.
I eventually decided on the M-26 would be in trouble first due to its design being a compromise and the windage on the hull due to the high freeboard. It just seems to me that it would be hard to control.
The lack of any ballast below the hull is not great either.
It was interesting, seeing that Beaufort scale again. It reminded me of that biggest wind I have ever sailed in. I remember looking at the binicle and the wind reading was 42. I don’t know if that was 42 mph or 42 knots. The scale tells me that would’ve been the difference between a fresh gale and a full Gail. Luckily, I wasn’t on any of these trailersailers. The 50 foot Irwin that I was on was being helmed by a little woman who probably weighed 100 pounds wet. she worked like a banshee to keep the boat on course. Her dad, the owner of the vessel, was wedged down in the galley sound asleep. The only sail that the ketch flew was rigged between the two masts. He had the distinction of sailing that boat on the great lakes every month of that particular year. Unfortunately, I can’t remember what year that was. I do, however remember the name of that vessel , the sojourner.
Having been out in force 7 & much greater in much more substantial boats than these, the correct answer is ALL! If you have really sailed in force 7 you would know it is the sea conditions/wave height that are the issue. None of these boats are suitable for those kind of conditions.
John Acord
It's nearly winter, sailing season is over, I'm fighting a cold, and I'm a Grumpy Old Man On The Internet. With that caveat out of the way: What the heck? Who's "tapping out" first? The answer is: Me! I'm tapping out first. On *any* of those boats, including my own Marshall Sanderling 18. I'm heading back to the ramp or the closest available shelter in fricken' F7 conditions.
Of all these, the boat that's gonna "get in trouble" first is the one with the least experienced skipper and crew.
37% so far think the Mac gets in trouble first! Balderdash. There continues to be an irrational bias against MacGregors among SCA readers (and editors). Consider: this model has 1) the self-righting stability of water ballast, plus 2) a broad beam with a wide, flat run aft, thus superior initial form stability; 3) a minimum 25 hp, but probably 50 hp outboard, so it could power through the wind and waves and get to shelter safely at speed; 4) positive foam flotation - its unsinkable; 5) not only a self bailing cockpit, but a partially open transom to maximize drainage if pooped; 6) if engine failed to start, it can still sail fast to shelter under reefed main and rolled up headsail - it’s much faster than any of the other boats; 7) if in danger of going aground, or having to deal with beam seas, centerboard can be partially retracted to reduce draft and minimize “tripping” over its keel as it yields to the seas; 8) the redundancy of twin rudders; 9) a large, comfortable cabin so crew can get out of the weather, make hot beverages, etc. 10) If shelter is not an option, it could heave to or power slowly into or at an angle to waves to minimize rolling and danger of capsize while waiting out the blow. At 26 feet, this a big, fast, safe comfortable boat. I’d rather take my chances in this Mac than any of the other boats. It may not be traditional or romantic or a “classic”, but it’s a safe, sea-worthy craft. I bet it scores higher than any of the others on John Vigor’s seaworthy scale. Ever had one blow by you in a good breeze under full main and Genoa? It’s much faster than a Catalina 22. This is a very capable boat.
I agree! 1,400 pounds of water ballast is a feature, not a bug. And with 70 or 80 hp on the transom (pictures shows a 26M or X), the skipper will blow the ballast and be sitting at the marina's warm bar while the gale blows. No marina? Run it up on the beach like any other centerboard boat. No beach? Heave to and stay warm and dry. And MacGregors are NOT flimsy boats -- I've got one. I've sailed a Siren 17. It's a good, solid boat, but it will be the first to run into trouble.
Thanks, Jerry, I have enjoyed and learned a great deal from your articles and have great respect for your opinion. Now if that Mac only looked like a Friendship sloop, or a Marshall cat! Sigh…
Good point, John. But I can (sorta) get used to it -- it's big enough for comfort, but light enough to trailer to distant waters...at least, that's the dream.
I have owned or sailed a MacGregor, a Potter, a Catalina. Not familiar with a Siren 17, and have concerns on an open boat. Now all that said, a good confident sailor will should not have problems with any of this group if a well founded boat. The Lugger got my vote because what gets in takes some efforts to get out!
Everyone loves to hate the MacGregor, but it is nonetheless a big, watertight box. Batten down the hatches and ride it out! I would be most concerned about the Siren, given its size and just not the type for this job.
Having owned and sailed a Siren for 17 years,I would have to agree. My 13 ft Enterprise sailboat wast much more capable in a blow.
Keep in mind Webb Chiles sailed a Drascombe Lugger from San Diego to the South Pacific before being pitchpoled. I believe he kept going after that but I am not sure if it was the same boat.
It was the same boat all the way to the Red Sea, where it was confiscated from him. That boat was designed for rough water.
My very first sailboat, 42 yrs ago, was a siren. While I still love what a simply and easily set up boat they are, I certainly wouldn’t want to be out in a gale…
Mind you, the cockpit is self bailing… a bonus compared to the Lugger
The ability of the sailor has more to do with it than the boat in my eye. I chose the Siren because it is the smallest boat of the group. My thought is that this boat may have been sailed by the least experienced because of be out in this weather. The Drascombe is an open boat, but a beginning sailor probably would not in my estimation be sailing that boat. I would love to have a Drascombe, another reason for not picking it. The Catalina would come out on top and the McGregor and Potter somewhere in the middle. These are all my thoughts and I have been wrought many times, just ask my wife.
Have to agree, I would be unhappy out in those conditions in any of those boats.
Maybe the Catalina would be the less scary of the lot!!
NOT a fan of M26…I have witnessed them in Squall Conditions with a Sea State…it was ugly! Very “Unstable”….at least in the hands of the Skippers I observed!!
Pitting these weight ballasted and one open boat against that big Mac is not fair and shows a lack of knowledge and understanding of what Roger MacGregor put into his water ballasted boats. I’ve ridden out bigger wind and water than Force 7 in my 26X and I was still having fun!
That said, the Dracombe goes home.
Normally I’d say the open boat because shipping water in climbing seas could be a big problem. But the MacGregor gets my vote because it is really a flat-bottomed power boat poorly designed for sail.
This is a tough one. My first thought was that the open boat should go out first but in capable hands, the Lugger could do fine.
I eventually decided on the M-26 would be in trouble first due to its design being a compromise and the windage on the hull due to the high freeboard. It just seems to me that it would be hard to control.
The lack of any ballast below the hull is not great either.
Although an open boat the Lugger should do well under Jib and Mizzen, no or deeply reefed main.
This is fun!
It was interesting, seeing that Beaufort scale again. It reminded me of that biggest wind I have ever sailed in. I remember looking at the binicle and the wind reading was 42. I don’t know if that was 42 mph or 42 knots. The scale tells me that would’ve been the difference between a fresh gale and a full Gail. Luckily, I wasn’t on any of these trailersailers. The 50 foot Irwin that I was on was being helmed by a little woman who probably weighed 100 pounds wet. she worked like a banshee to keep the boat on course. Her dad, the owner of the vessel, was wedged down in the galley sound asleep. The only sail that the ketch flew was rigged between the two masts. He had the distinction of sailing that boat on the great lakes every month of that particular year. Unfortunately, I can’t remember what year that was. I do, however remember the name of that vessel , the sojourner.
Jim Smith