I vote for All of the Above. Seriously. Here in California, some of the boat deals Potter Yachters I know have made over the past few years were, in a word, extraordinary. One purchased a late model Capri 18 in very good condition for about 3K, trailer included. Another paid about the same for a Sage 15 on wheels, no kidding. A third obtained one of the last Potter 19s ever built for under 4K from a guy who's sailed in only in fresh water and stored it indoors. It was immaculate.
Perhaps California is an outlier, but I suspect not. The confluence of Baby Boomers aging out of sailing, high fuel costs, housing prices, etc. have made this the best buyer's market for used boats any of us are likely to see in our lifetimes. Don't delay!
Absolutely true, older fiberglass boats are just not selling at all right now, which makes it an extreme buyers market- whatever offer you put in is likely the only offer the seller is going to get. I was planning to save for another decade for my “dream” boat model but took a chance and put in an offer with what I could actually afford, and it was accepted immediately, at about ¼ what the seller had paid for the boat a few years earlier.
To do it over 20 years ago, I would have done the trailer sailor because: 1. Cheaper to get, 2. easier to store, 3. no slip fees, 4. learn fiberglass repair, 4. go to lakes, 5. my wife would be less negative, maybe, 6. Brush up on sailing skills, etc. However, I have enjoyed my 26' S2 and 30' Catalina for many reasons.
Sunfish or any very small boat that capsizes easily. Capsizing is one of the best teachers I know. I started out with a foam snark. I loved it and learned to sail quickly.
Well, I voted for classic trailer sailers, but I love my Vivacity (1968 Bilge keeler). This year makes the 31st year we've been together, and she's still a bargain and a great sailing partner.
To get started - 16' fiberglass... gets the ball rolling and builds confidence with experience. And also, like the rest of us (99.9675% of us) every sailboat scene on the water gets scrutiny and desires evolve until all interests are tested and learned! That is the "good life," once lived
As a sailing instructor, I've been asked many times for recommendation for a first boat (and inexpensive is nice too). Keep it small (learning to drive a VW instead of an 18-wheeler) and simple. Avoid expensive slip fees with a trailersailer if room for one, or an older FG boat. I owned and cruised a twin-keeled Westerly for nearly 40-years and can vouch for its Lloyds of London stoutness and wood can be cheap but very expensive without the repair and maintenance skills.
May I recommend the Neptune 16. Deck-stepped mast; just throw it up and go. Great fun solo, or with wife, dog, and a friend or two. Catalina-capable if you're in southern California. Need to reef? Just drop the jib. She can handle just about anything under main alone. Check out the Ruddy Duck videos on YouTube, a Newport 16 (slightly different iteration of the same boat) that sails the lakes of Idaho and Washington, to see the boat's potential. Like you said about the twin-keel/bilge-keelers: you're not going to win any races. But if you want a well-built, easily-handled boat that's incredibly inexpensive to buy and maintain, this is it.
Young boat buyers should keep in mind that the trailer is an important part of the package. Since many trailers paired with classic trailer sailors were made of mild steel, original equipment, if still on the road, likely has serious rust issues. It's surprisingly difficult to find a trailer to match a specific boat. Plus, many outfits prefer not to deal with the complexities of sailboat trailers and focus exclusively on power boats. Depending on where you live, you may find that you're essentially on your own, with a whole new area of expertise and skills to learn. Marinas understand that you're not going to be a lucrative slip customer paying launch and storage fees, and don't see much upside in helping you. My advice - hang out at a launch ramp popular with sailors, offer to help them and and chat them up. You'll find an experienced community willing to give lots of good advice and psychic support. Finally - especially if you're married, be realistic about what you can handle before you acquire a project boat. If you can, spend a little more for something that's ready to sail. Good luck!
I had to vote for "other" only because of the "bargain basement" and "new to sailing" criteria...Other than finding a Sunfish that needs some fixing up, finding a good old fiberglass dinghy, many of which came with sail rigs, is probably the dirt cheapest entry point. Smaller is always better (how about a cast-off Opti?). And the smallest boats give you the greatest bang for your learning buck. If there was a little more money in the boating kitty, I'd go with a Siren (thanks for mentioning them, Frank. Great trailer-sailer) or a Potter 15, if I could one that needs some work (because cleaned-up Potters have become too pricey).
If you are truly a newbie, start with a small trailer sailer you can keep at home. That way you can approach learning sailing skills without the pressure (or regret!) of monthly moorage fees. Once you learn what kind of sailing fits you and your budget, you can trade up if that is what you want or need.
I would argue that the best bet for a newbie would be build or buy a small skiff or pram and learn to sail on that. Perhaps your poll should have been titled "Best type of sailboat for a boatless sailor"
For a newbie that doesn't know how to sail I think the smaller the boat the better. They will learn faster, the boats are usually cheaper and they can easily move up to a larger boat after they have acquired skills.
70 Santana 21 or the like is a great beginner boat. I did upgrade to a 68 bilge keeler though and love the head room and comfort. I see lots of bargains right now on Craigslist. Saw a Mull 26 ft Ranger with an 8h outboard, Spinnaker gear and nice trailer the other day for 2 grand. Had to fight the urge to call on that one. A man can have too many boats.
People buying a small boat for the first time often buy a boat that looks good but doesn’t sail well, because you can’t “see” that part- and then it makes the hobby ultimately end up a lot less fun when you can’t get places easily and quickly without motoring everywhere. A Montgomery 15 is the boat I would recommend to almost anyone looking to get into an affordable first boat, unless they have a big family that can't all fit on one. Enough were made that they are fairly easy to find, sails exceptionally well in almost all conditions and all points of sail, seaworthy, cheap to maintain, comfortable sleeping for 2 large adults, easy to rig, high build quality, simple, trailerable with even the smallest compact cars, and they have enough of a cult following that it's pretty much guaranteed to hold it's value over time, and sell quickly. Sure, you might pay $5-6k for one when it seems like you could get a different model boat for a little less, but after a few years it will have proven cheaper to own. One caveat is the steel ballast in early models can be an expensive repair, so I'd recommend a later lead ballast one, or one where the ballast has already been sealed in better or converted to lead.
Boats like the Siren 17, Montgomery 15 or compac 16 etc are excellent values now and fun
Got two of three of those in my back yard. Great boats, all.
or West Wight Potter (15 or 19)
I vote for All of the Above. Seriously. Here in California, some of the boat deals Potter Yachters I know have made over the past few years were, in a word, extraordinary. One purchased a late model Capri 18 in very good condition for about 3K, trailer included. Another paid about the same for a Sage 15 on wheels, no kidding. A third obtained one of the last Potter 19s ever built for under 4K from a guy who's sailed in only in fresh water and stored it indoors. It was immaculate.
Perhaps California is an outlier, but I suspect not. The confluence of Baby Boomers aging out of sailing, high fuel costs, housing prices, etc. have made this the best buyer's market for used boats any of us are likely to see in our lifetimes. Don't delay!
George Wehrfritz
Vice Commodore
The Potter Yachters
Absolutely true, older fiberglass boats are just not selling at all right now, which makes it an extreme buyers market- whatever offer you put in is likely the only offer the seller is going to get. I was planning to save for another decade for my “dream” boat model but took a chance and put in an offer with what I could actually afford, and it was accepted immediately, at about ¼ what the seller had paid for the boat a few years earlier.
Don’t delay applies to everything! I love it!
To do it over 20 years ago, I would have done the trailer sailor because: 1. Cheaper to get, 2. easier to store, 3. no slip fees, 4. learn fiberglass repair, 4. go to lakes, 5. my wife would be less negative, maybe, 6. Brush up on sailing skills, etc. However, I have enjoyed my 26' S2 and 30' Catalina for many reasons.
Sunfish or any very small boat that capsizes easily. Capsizing is one of the best teachers I know. I started out with a foam snark. I loved it and learned to sail quickly.
Around me, every summers there seems to be a dozen or so O'Day Daysailers for sale for cheap. That's where I would start.
Well, I voted for classic trailer sailers, but I love my Vivacity (1968 Bilge keeler). This year makes the 31st year we've been together, and she's still a bargain and a great sailing partner.
To get started - 16' fiberglass... gets the ball rolling and builds confidence with experience. And also, like the rest of us (99.9675% of us) every sailboat scene on the water gets scrutiny and desires evolve until all interests are tested and learned! That is the "good life," once lived
As a sailing instructor, I've been asked many times for recommendation for a first boat (and inexpensive is nice too). Keep it small (learning to drive a VW instead of an 18-wheeler) and simple. Avoid expensive slip fees with a trailersailer if room for one, or an older FG boat. I owned and cruised a twin-keeled Westerly for nearly 40-years and can vouch for its Lloyds of London stoutness and wood can be cheap but very expensive without the repair and maintenance skills.
May I recommend the Neptune 16. Deck-stepped mast; just throw it up and go. Great fun solo, or with wife, dog, and a friend or two. Catalina-capable if you're in southern California. Need to reef? Just drop the jib. She can handle just about anything under main alone. Check out the Ruddy Duck videos on YouTube, a Newport 16 (slightly different iteration of the same boat) that sails the lakes of Idaho and Washington, to see the boat's potential. Like you said about the twin-keel/bilge-keelers: you're not going to win any races. But if you want a well-built, easily-handled boat that's incredibly inexpensive to buy and maintain, this is it.
Young boat buyers should keep in mind that the trailer is an important part of the package. Since many trailers paired with classic trailer sailors were made of mild steel, original equipment, if still on the road, likely has serious rust issues. It's surprisingly difficult to find a trailer to match a specific boat. Plus, many outfits prefer not to deal with the complexities of sailboat trailers and focus exclusively on power boats. Depending on where you live, you may find that you're essentially on your own, with a whole new area of expertise and skills to learn. Marinas understand that you're not going to be a lucrative slip customer paying launch and storage fees, and don't see much upside in helping you. My advice - hang out at a launch ramp popular with sailors, offer to help them and and chat them up. You'll find an experienced community willing to give lots of good advice and psychic support. Finally - especially if you're married, be realistic about what you can handle before you acquire a project boat. If you can, spend a little more for something that's ready to sail. Good luck!
I had to vote for "other" only because of the "bargain basement" and "new to sailing" criteria...Other than finding a Sunfish that needs some fixing up, finding a good old fiberglass dinghy, many of which came with sail rigs, is probably the dirt cheapest entry point. Smaller is always better (how about a cast-off Opti?). And the smallest boats give you the greatest bang for your learning buck. If there was a little more money in the boating kitty, I'd go with a Siren (thanks for mentioning them, Frank. Great trailer-sailer) or a Potter 15, if I could one that needs some work (because cleaned-up Potters have become too pricey).
If you are truly a newbie, start with a small trailer sailer you can keep at home. That way you can approach learning sailing skills without the pressure (or regret!) of monthly moorage fees. Once you learn what kind of sailing fits you and your budget, you can trade up if that is what you want or need.
I would argue that the best bet for a newbie would be build or buy a small skiff or pram and learn to sail on that. Perhaps your poll should have been titled "Best type of sailboat for a boatless sailor"
For a newbie that doesn't know how to sail I think the smaller the boat the better. They will learn faster, the boats are usually cheaper and they can easily move up to a larger boat after they have acquired skills.
70 Santana 21 or the like is a great beginner boat. I did upgrade to a 68 bilge keeler though and love the head room and comfort. I see lots of bargains right now on Craigslist. Saw a Mull 26 ft Ranger with an 8h outboard, Spinnaker gear and nice trailer the other day for 2 grand. Had to fight the urge to call on that one. A man can have too many boats.
People buying a small boat for the first time often buy a boat that looks good but doesn’t sail well, because you can’t “see” that part- and then it makes the hobby ultimately end up a lot less fun when you can’t get places easily and quickly without motoring everywhere. A Montgomery 15 is the boat I would recommend to almost anyone looking to get into an affordable first boat, unless they have a big family that can't all fit on one. Enough were made that they are fairly easy to find, sails exceptionally well in almost all conditions and all points of sail, seaworthy, cheap to maintain, comfortable sleeping for 2 large adults, easy to rig, high build quality, simple, trailerable with even the smallest compact cars, and they have enough of a cult following that it's pretty much guaranteed to hold it's value over time, and sell quickly. Sure, you might pay $5-6k for one when it seems like you could get a different model boat for a little less, but after a few years it will have proven cheaper to own. One caveat is the steel ballast in early models can be an expensive repair, so I'd recommend a later lead ballast one, or one where the ballast has already been sealed in better or converted to lead.